CFI Forums

Why arguing with religion is impossible…

2008-07-02T14:38:53Z

In my opinion it is impossible to have a real argument with a religious person. Why? First lets define an argument...arguing to me means using logic and facts. There we run into our first problem with arguing with a religious person. Religion is not logical and it is not based on fact. No matter what the non-religious person says or comes back with, the religious person can always reject it. Somehow they can reject fundamental facts of nature. I have argued with a friend about religion before (the friend being religious, me being non-religious). Whenever I made a point based on fact (such as carbon-dating proves that the earth has existed longer then what the Bible suggests) he would simply say “carbon-dating doesn’t work”. Or when I asked him how someone could part the Red Sea or create something out of nothing (Genesis) , he would bring up every religious persons ultimate comeback which non-religious people cannot logically reject...."its God....he can do anything”. Once they have said that it is over...you cannot say anything to which they cannot reply with that.

That is why i refuse to argue with religious people anymore....its simply a waste of my breath.

A Secular Community

2008-07-05T08:35:42Z

A Secular community; would it be possible?

Would it ever be possible to have a community within a County or State that sets the laws without any reference to God/Jesus/Allah/Abraham? Our marriages would be totally secular and handled like a business contract. Our homes and commercial buildings would be purchased under another contract where both men and women were obligated to pay the mortgages. Our schools would have secular classrooms focused on math and science with an emphasis on academics. Since we would have no churches we would not request or accept government faith-based money. We would have our own charities for the homeless and handicapped residents. We can have tutors on the basic rules of right an wrong without any mention of hell and damnation.

Our local government would demand that the Federal Government stay out of our social choices and absolutely under the 10th Amendment. Our newspapers would reflect the 1st Amendment for freedom of speech. We would be the perfect example of a Separation of Church and State. Our schools under the guidance of the parents would teach right from wrong from the first day of kindergarten. We would not be required to hand the Federal Government any information on our private or personal lives. The 4th Amendment would be restored inside our secular community. We would be under no obligation to follow any Congressional interference in our lives. No wire-tapping, no eavesdropping and no requests for our medical records or job histories to be put in a National ID registration.

All celebrations whether local or religious would be by choice as many Atheists enjoy the time off from work and school to spend with our loved ones.

We would pay our taxes to the County, State and Federal Government but our personal lives will not depend on any religious leader found in the White House or the Capitol. This came to me last night when I had had quite enough of the Candidates running who want full control over our individual lives. I want my America back.

Comments?

Building the Machine

2008-07-04T07:23:52Z

I’m in the process of reading Steven Pinker’s “The blank slate: the modern denial of human nature” and it is a thoroughly fascinating read so far. I’m intrigued by the idea that we are all trying to figure out how we are able to think, how our brains are wired, and how the process of becoming who we are happens. I can see how religion is a comforting way to explain all the unknowns (as it has been throughout history through mythologies of one kind or another), but the science of human nature is so compelling as we discover more and more about ourselves. My husband and I were chatting last night about whether or not you could really build a machine that would build itself--just as we as a people are striving to decode ourselves. Anyone else out there reading this book or have some thoughts to share on this topic?

Vanessa

Questions about Old Testament Prophecy

2008-01-17T13:42:41Z

On the surface it seems that there are some prophecies in the Old Testament that came true. Some Christians use this as an argument for proof of God’s existence. I highly suspect that there are problems with this line of thinking, however, I don’t know what they are. I’m looking for two things:

1) Resources that show that Old Testament prophecies do not hold up to scrutiny
2) Resources about prophecies of other religions, and/or prophets throughout history

McFia

UNBREAKABLE CYPHER

2008-07-01T13:16:21Z

NO ONE CAN BREAK THIS CYPHER…

AV YC OY BO BQ OA NA KG DJ GE GE GK WM BM TY DV WE

IF ANYONE KNOWS THE TYPE OF CYPHER THAT IS THEY WILL REALIZE WHY THEY CANNOT BREAK IT!!!

I speak, therefore I think…

2008-06-20T22:22:20Z

I’m not sure where this topic belongs, so I’ve placed it in General Discussion. Feel free to move it to a more appropriate location.

This question has plagued me for some time:

Before Man had language, did he have the ability to think?

Does Anyone Have Any Suggestions?

2008-06-11T09:13:05Z

Over the past month, I have been e-conversing with a pastor who has some limited national recognition thru out the US. He and I are polar opposites. I am an atheist and I have been questioning much of what he does. He has told me in several e’s that he has healed the sick with prayer. He has healed leukemia. He has told me of two incidents where he has prayed and he’s “watched” a leg grow 1” in front of him and another 1” overnight. He has healed back problems. His own hearing was healed by prayer when he was 10 yrs old. His church sends out missionaries and they have recently been to India healing at least 12 AIDS patients. They have been totally cured for at least a month. I have never been able to get him to admit he’s taken money for these prayer healings. His non-answer to my direct question leaves me with the impression he indeed has suggested and accepted money. I have been trying to get him to try James Randi’s $1,000,000 challenge. Of course he won’t b/c he knows it’s “rigged”. And, best e was when he told me something like “It’s not so hard to make a human from dust. All the combined ingredients would cost about $2.79.” Somehow with these beliefs, he manages to stay under the radar. There is nothing about him on the internet which claims someone has been cheated out of money for a false healing (at least nothing I’ve found). When I started to write to him and questioned prayer and healing, he removed comments pertaining to prayer and healing from his website. There LOTS about his ministry on the internet. LOTS.

This man is charismatic and it’s easy for me to understand how he charms anyone. While I’ve been appalled at much of what he’s said to me and I’ve expressed that, in most cases he’s remained calm. I however am haunted with this, thinking he will tell a person who is genuinely sick that he’s healed them. Is there anything that can be done to stop this sort of action? Am I out of line pursuing this? Should I just leave those who are vulnerable to fend for themselves? I would really like to see an operation like this shut down. I need the perspective of others. Any thoughts and assistance will be appreciated.

Religious jokes

2006-12-06T02:51:14Z

We all need a laugh every now and then, so I thought I’d start a thread for religious jokes, or link to websites that have jokes. Here’s one to start us off.

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A nun was riding in a taxi cab one night, and noticed the driver kept darting nervous glances into the passenger compartment. Finally he plucked up his courage and said, "Sister, I’d like to ask you a question, but I don’t know how to say it without offending you."

"I assure you, my son," said the nun. "I’ve heard just about everything. There’s nothing you can ask that would offend me."

"It’s that black habit, I guess," said the driver, blushing. "I’ve always fantasized about being kissed by a nun."

To his surprise, the nun solemnly thought over his request. "Are you single?"

"Yes."

"Are you Catholic?"

"Yes!"

"Then if it means that much to you," said the nun, "I don’t see what harm it would do."

The driver eagerly pulled over to the curb. To his utter astonishment, the nun grabbed him by the lapels and gave him the deepest French kiss he had ever had in his life. He was so stunned, he didn’t say a word as he put the taxi in gear and drove on.

"Wow!" he said at last. "That was such a great kiss, I really feel guilty about lying to you, sister. You see, I’m not really single, and I’m not really Catholic."

"Think nothing of it, my son," said the nun. "My name is Kevin, and I’m on my way to a costume party."

George Carlin

2008-06-24T07:55:50Z

In honor of his passing, I see there’s a good link with some clips of his routines. Check them out HERE.

Neanderthal evolution

2008-06-19T12:19:32Z

Has anyone out there looked into the evolutionary bottleneck humanity experienced around 74,000 years ago (perhaps a result of hypervolcanic eruption catastrophe) and what impact it might have had on homonids other than human? More specifically Neanderthal evolution? I’m not a professional anthropologist but human evolution intrigues me immensely. Any anthropological speculations? It seems what we already know about Neanderthals, albeit minimal, indicates they were physically well suited to survival through volcanic winters. I’m curious as to what other anomalies, adaptations, etc. could have played out, what implications for Cro Magnon etc. Love to hear some theories.