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    <title type="text">CFI Forums</title>
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    <entry>
      <title>Do non&#45;human animals have free will&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15184/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2012:forums/viewthread/.15184</id>
      <published>2012-10-30T23:16:19Z</published>
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      <author><name>Lois</name></author>
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        <p>If so, how does that work?&nbsp; Is there any difference between human and non-human free will?</p>

<p>If not, how do they manage to survive?
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>The P versus NP problem</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15415/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2012:forums/viewthread/.15415</id>
      <published>2012-12-30T01:02:38Z</published>
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      <author><name>kkwan</name></author>
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        <p>What is the P versus NP problem?</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_versus_NP_problem">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P_versus_NP_problem</a></p>

<blockquote><p>The P versus NP problem is a major unsolved problem in computer science. Informally, it asks whether every problem whose solution can be quickly verified by a computer can also be quickly solved by a computer.</p></blockquote>

<p>There is a US$ 1,000,000 prize to be won:</p>

<blockquote><p>It is one of the seven Millennium Prize Problems selected by the Clay Mathematics Institute to carry a US$ 1,000,000 prize for the first correct solution.</p></blockquote>

<p><b>Consequences of the resolution of the problem</b></p>

<p><b>If P = NP</b></p>

<p>1. Problems for cryptography:</p>

<blockquote><p>Cryptography, for example, relies on certain problems being difficult. A constructive and efficient solution to an NP-complete problem such as 3-SAT would break most existing cryptosystems including public-key cryptography, a foundation for many modern security applications such as secure economic transactions over the Internet, and symmetric ciphers such as AES or 3DES, used for the encryption of communications data. These would need to be modified or replaced by information-theoretically secure solutions.</p></blockquote>

<p>2. Positive breakthroughs for logistics and biology:</p>

<blockquote><p>Efficient solutions to these problems would have enormous implications for logistics. Many other important problems, such as some problems in protein structure prediction, are also NP-complete; if these problems were efficiently solvable it could spur considerable advances in biology.</p></blockquote>

<p>3. Revolution in mathematics:</p>

<blockquote><p>According to Stephen Cook,</p>

<p>&nbsp;   ...it would transform mathematics by allowing a computer to find a formal proof of any theorem which has a proof of a reasonable length, since formal proofs can easily be recognized in polynomial time. Example problems may well include all of the CMI prize problems.</p></blockquote>

<p><b>If P ≠ NP</b></p>

<blockquote><p>A proof that showed that P ≠ NP would lack the practical computational benefits of a proof that P = NP, but would nevertheless represent a very significant advance in computational complexity theory and provide guidance for future research. It would allow one to show in a formal way that many common problems cannot be solved efficiently, so that the attention of researchers can be focused on partial solutions or solutions to other problems. Due to widespread belief in P ≠ NP, much of this focusing of research has already taken place.</p></blockquote>

<p>In other words, If P ≠ NP, it means that there are many common problems whereby there is no universal algorithm for an exact solution and  brute force or creativity is the only way to try and arrive at an approximate solution whether by humans, computers or nature with finite resources of space and time.</p>

<p>Why is the N versus NP problem relevant to philosophy?</p>

<p>In this paper by Scott Aaronson: <a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1108.1791v3.pdf">http://arxiv.org/pdf/1108.1791v3.pdf</a></p>

<p>From the abstract:</p>

<blockquote><p>One might think that, once we know something is computable, how efficiently it can be computed is a practical question with little further philosophical importance. In this essay, I offer a detailed case that one would be wrong. In particular, I argue that computational complexity theory—the field that studies the resources (such as time, space, and randomness) needed to solve computational problems—leads to new perspectives on the nature of mathematical knowledge, the strong AI debate, computationalism, the problem of logical omniscience, Hume’s problem of induction, Goodman’s grue riddle, the foundations of quantum mechanics, economic rationality, closed timelike curves, and several other topics of philosophical interest. I end by discussing aspects of complexity theory itself that could benefit from philosophical analysis.</p></blockquote>

<p>From the conclusion:</p>

<blockquote><p>The purpose of this essay was to illustrate how philosophy could be enriched by taking computational complexity theory into account, much as it was enriched almost a century ago by taking computability theory into account.</p></blockquote>

<p>And from the criticisms of Complexity Theory:</p>

<blockquote><p>(3) Complexity theory focuses on only a limited type of computer—the serial, deterministic Turing machine—and fails to incorporate the “messier” computational phenomena found in nature.</p></blockquote>

<p>With so much at stake, resolution of the P verses NP problem and it&#8217;s relevance from a computational complexity perspective (with it&#8217;s strengths and weaknesses), is certainly a fertile realm for philosophical investigations.</p>

<p>And there is the chance of winning US$ 1,000,000 as well.&nbsp; </p>

<p><img src="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/images/smileys/cheese.gif" width="19" height="19" alt="cheese" style="border:0;" />
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Christopher Hitchens&#8217; use of Solipsism</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15856/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2013:forums/viewthread/.15856</id>
      <published>2013-05-07T22:23:19Z</published>
      <updated></updated>
      <author><name>VIDEODROME</name></author>
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        <p>It seems like Hitchens would frequently use this term to describe Faith-Based Thinking. I&#8217;m not sure this is quite accurate, but I kind of appreciate what he was trying to explain. It&#8217;s kind of a grey area. </p>

<p>I mean Solipsism is when a person only acknowledges their Reality because of their own thoughts and feelings. (I think therefore, I am) As far as they can tell people in daily life are no more or less real than people they might encounter in a dream. I don&#8217;t think even most religious people are quite literally to that point. </p>

<p>Yet, do many humans fail to appreciate other humans have independent minds just like theirs?&nbsp; In a vague murky way, I think maybe this is true, and I wondered if this is what Hitchens meant. </p>

<p>This state of mind could arise unintentionally when people rise to positions of power in Politics or Religion which insulate them from the general public. At first, they try to be responsible leaders, but then, they try to mold the population and society based on how they&#8217;ve lived their own successful life. </p>

<p>I guess in general, I&#8217;m not sure the term Solipsism was quite right, but I feel Hitchens was grasping at a very critical issue that needs to be looked at. I also think in a way American Foreign Policy is tainted by this and that is why we keep trying to &#8220;Spread Democracy&#8221; to the Middle-East.&nbsp; </p>

<p>Or in a more mundane way, this leads to the Bad American Tourist who visits another nation while expecting food and amenities like back in the U.S..
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Essential Secular Humanist Philosophy for Noobs&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15537/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2013:forums/viewthread/.15537</id>
      <published>2013-02-06T23:42:59Z</published>
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      <author><name>VIDEODROME</name></author>
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        <p>I&#8217;ve been circling around this forum for a while not sure of what I can contribute or discuss. I have an interest in philosophical thinking and reflecting on how to improve the human condition, but I&#8217;m not that well read on philosophers or educated on philosophy. </p>

<p>The most contemporary Philosophy figure that may influence me is Daniel Dennett.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve watched some of his lecture videos and I enjoy his approach to consciousness study, life in general, or poking holes in Faith-based thinking. </p>

<p>Another person I&#8217;m interested in from another era is Baruch Spinoza.&nbsp; The Einstein quote &#8220;I believe in Spinoza&#8217;s God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with fates and actions of human beings.&#8221; carries a lot of weight with me because of the source. </p>

<p>Now I have tried one of the cheap free Kindle books on Spinoza and gave up on it. The reason for that is the beginning was interesting, but I felt is was used as a springboard for the author to launch into his own philosophy. After a while, it wasn&#8217;t clear to me that I was reading his interpretation of Spinoza or his own philosophy. So if someone here would like to school me on Spinoza I&#8217;d welcome that.&nbsp; </p>

<p>I guess in general, I&#8217;m interested a thread where experienced people well read on Philosophy can break the ice with complete novices who might feel slightly intimidated by it or out of their league in discussing it.&nbsp; Especially in regards to philosophy as it relates to Secularism.
</p>
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>THE religion ~ reality INTERFACE</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15801/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2013:forums/viewthread/.15801</id>
      <published>2013-04-22T17:27:42Z</published>
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      <author><name>citizenschallenge.pm</name></author>
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        <p>.<br />
.
This grew out of another thread<br />
<a href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15720/P0/">&#8220;News Flash: WUWT’s Anthony Watts claims all Christians believe Bible 100% Inerrant&#8221;</a><br />
<i>but. . . . . . . it fits better over here&#8230;</i></p>

<p><i>Bryan, <br />
let me ask you: </i><br />
Have you taken the time to read any of this little trilogy?&nbsp; <br />
Just curious because <a href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15720/P15/#178138">given your assertions above</a>, I wonder what you would make of the following&#8230;</p>

<p>There They Go Again&#8230;.....<br />
<span style="font-size:9px;"><a href="http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2008/08/there-they-go-again.html">http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2008/08/there-they-go-again.html</a></span></p>

<p>What is Sciences Sin?<br />
<span style="font-size:9px;"><a href="http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2008/08/what-is-sciences-sin.html">http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2008/08/what-is-sciences-sin.html</a></span></p>

<p>God flowing into the Word<br />
<span style="font-size:9px;"><a href="http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2008/08/god-flowing-into-word.html">http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2008/08/god-flowing-into-word.html</a></span>
</p>
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>A pragmatic discussion about free will</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/13172/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2012:forums/viewthread/.13172</id>
      <published>2012-04-11T04:51:12Z</published>
      <updated>2012-04-16T04:34:04Z</updated>
      <author><name>FreeInKy</name></author>
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        <p>I intentionally posted this in the Humanism forum rather than the Philosophy forum because I want this discussion to be pragmatic rather than philosophical. My question is this:</p>

<p>Does it really matter to my everyday life if human free will technically exists or not? And if so, how? </p>

<p>My feeling at this point is that it does not matter. Whether my actions are predetermined or not, I operate from the perspective that my actions are my own responsibility. </p>

<p>Thoughts?</p>

<p><span style="color:blue;">[EDIT: given the progress of this thread, I&#8217;ve moved it to Philosophy. Sorry! dougsmith&#8212;Admin]</span>
</p>
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Thoughts on Evolutionary Creation &#45; a three part examination by a little guy.</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15736/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2013:forums/viewthread/.15736</id>
      <published>2013-04-02T09:32:16Z</published>
      <updated></updated>
      <author><name>citizenschallenge.pm</name></author>
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      <![CDATA[
        <p><span style="color:green;"><i>This is in response to something Bryan said about Creationism - rereading through these old essays, I see it&#8217;s time for me to get inspired and do a major re-write, but too many other items on my plate currently.&nbsp; Perhaps I just want to make the point that I have thought long and hard about the mystery of the pageant of Evolutionary Creation.</span></p>

<p><span style="color:green;">In fact an internal mantra that comes to me unbidden is &#8220;God is Creation&#8221; . . . <i> as in fourteen some billion years of folds within folds of cumulative cascading harmonic complexity</i></span></p>

<p><span style="color:green;">Nor do I actually have any problem with <b>god</b> as in <b>Providence</b>. . .<br />
My issue is with anyone who believes they can or do <b>know God&#8217;s Word and Will.</b>&nbsp; <br />
That&#8217;s pure petty human hubris and craziness in action !</span></p>

<p><span style="color:green;">As for Evolution that is such a fantastical pageant, that in my heart there is room for more than science can touch on.&nbsp; <br />
But, it beats the heck out of me what that <b>more</b> is.</i></span><br />
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
</p><blockquote><p>SUNDAY, AUGUST 3, 2008<br />
<b><a href="http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2008/08/there-they-go-again.html">http://citizenschallenge.blogspot.com/2008/08/there-they-go-again.html</a></b></p>

<p><br />
<b>There They Go Again&#8230;.....</b><br />
...I thought as their mantra swept over me:&nbsp; &#8220;Don&#8217;t you know, no one has ever found an Evolutionary missing link, nothing is proven!&nbsp; Evolution is a joke!&nbsp; I&#8217;m telling you my God put the whole Universe here in six days, six thousand years ago, period!&#8221;&nbsp; Then came the all too predictable clincher: &#8220;How can you think differently, were you there?&#8221;</p>

<p>I started my response, but fell silent, too depressed to go on.&nbsp; Why try to discuss the beauty, poetry and reality of God&#8217; intelligent design - that is, the past many billions of years of ongoing creation - with friends who slam their ears and minds shut at any mention of evolution  being Godly, beautiful and it&#8217;s about time we begin trying to appreciate it?</p>

<p>I&#8217;ll admit - I&#8217;m bewildered by the refusal of so many to wake up to God&#8217;s fantastic infinity.</p>

<p>Where to start in trying to crack that shell of reinforced fear?&nbsp; Would it help to point out that though some scientist pontificate on absolute randomness, such talk should be taken with a grain of salt?&nbsp; Individual scientists, just like religious folk are filled with conceits and foibles.&nbsp; Why not admit we all strive for understanding, but are shackled by our own human tunnel-vision?&nbsp; Side opinions shouldn&#8217;t detract from the essence of the scientific data that continues to be collected and digested, any more than religious fundamentalist, with all their deceptions, anger, and pick-pocketing, shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to cloud religion&#8217;s universal truths.</p>

<p>Or, would it help to confront the actual comment: &#8220;There are no Evolutionary missing links.&#8221;&nbsp; Dear friend, what are you talking about?&nbsp; There are countless examples of transitional and &#8220;missing links&#8221; that aren&#8217;t missing at all.&nbsp; Take the &#8220;Tunicates&#8221; for example; they are classified as &#8220;non-vertebrate chordate,&#8221; because they are a telling link between non-backboned animals and those with back bones.&nbsp; There are volumes of catalogued examples clearly showing the steadfast development of life on God&#8217;s good earth.&nbsp; But, one must look at it.</p>

<p>Too many condemn Evolution without ever knowing what it&#8217;s about.&nbsp; This wouldn&#8217;t be a big deal, if these same uninformed doubters weren&#8217;t also demanding that our education system subscribe to their tunnel vision.&nbsp; Before condemning evolution, learn about its beauty and depth.&nbsp; </p>

<p>In this quest there&#8217;s an excellent teacher in <b><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Life_TV_series">David Attenborough</a></b>.&nbsp; His documentaries such as &#8220;Life on Earth&#8221; and &#8220;The Living Planet&#8221; series do a superb job of describing organisms and how they have evolved and built upon preceding generations.&nbsp; The story is awesome and the creatures are spectacular.&nbsp; Using real world examples he conveys Evolution&#8217;s magnificant pageant of cumulative poetry in motion, revealing some of the countless fould within folds of harmonic complexity that resonate throughout creation.</p>

<p>Accept the challenge by viewing some of his many documentaries.&nbsp; Or, if the Internet is where you&#8217;re at, look up &#8220;The Great Story.&#8221;&nbsp; In contrast to Attenborough who&#8217;s a naturalist through and through, these folks glory in religion, while conveying a sense of God&#8217;s eon of Creation and its compatibility with Faith.</p>

<p>Finally, there&#8217;s that: &#8220;Where you there?&#8221; slap.&nbsp; What is it asking?&nbsp; Was anyone of us there when a few people tussled over how to word Genesis, or the later New Testament?&nbsp; Was anyone of us there during the backroom discussions regarding how best to exploit Jesus&#8217; fantastic new message of love and redemption for empire and profit?&nbsp; Were you there&#8230; indeed.&nbsp; I don&#8217;t know about then and there, but I do about here and now, and when walking about with my sense and heart receptive, the examples of an ongoing evolution are everywhere to be seen!&nbsp; God&#8217;s creation, that is evolution, really is a beautiful, mysterious, overwhelming thing that must be recognized before one can ever hope to know Faith of love God.</p></blockquote>
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    <entry>
      <title>Philosophy of Being: No Change= Change</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15567/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2013:forums/viewthread/.15567</id>
      <published>2013-02-13T09:29:21Z</published>
      <updated>2013-03-16T20:45:46Z</updated>
      <author><name>arnoldg</name></author>
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        <p>We don`t change;&nbsp; Science studies change&#8212;data, particles, galaxies, relativity;</p>

<p>Are matter, space, time the only scientific concepts for Our Existence?</p>

<p>Observation and Transformation interact with matter in space and time;</p>

<p>Causing the actuality of Our Being Here and Our Existence;</p>

<p>We observe change, Our understandings change,&nbsp; We don`t change.
</p>
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    <entry>
      <title>Extraordinary Claims</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15664/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2013:forums/viewthread/.15664</id>
      <published>2013-03-07T04:18:54Z</published>
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      <author><name>Dom1978</name></author>
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        <p>We all know the famous line, and most of us probably agree with it, but I want to argue here that the main difference between believers (in ESP, ghosts, clairvoyance, astrology, etc) and Skeptics is the way they interpret and understand the &#8216;extraordinary claims&#8217; bit. </p>

<p>Now, for believers, these claims really are not extraordinary at all. After all, they will say, people in all times and at all places have seen ghosts, communicated with the dead, and predicted the future. So if somebody down the street sees a ghost tomorrow, then that&#8217;s perfectly normal. This kind of thing happens a lot with human beings. It&#8217;s just an ordinary part of human life.&nbsp;   </p>

<p>For the Skeptic, though, things are completely different. So when somebody claims to be talking to your dead mother, the skeptic will say (quite rightly, in my view) that it&#8217;s extremely improbable that your mother still exists with the same personality, emotions, values and memories but with no brain or body! They will also point to the evidence from neuroscience and the like showing that brain damage can completely change one&#8217;s personality and destroy memories. </p>

<p>So, I want to say that the skeptics have the correct interpretation of the &#8216;extraordinary claims&#8217; part of the famous line, whereas believers really don&#8217;t get it at all. The fact that people in many or all cultures have found it extremely difficult to accept that loved ones are gone forever, and have therefore been deeply interested in things like ghosts and communication with the dead, does not make it probable that any of these things are real. You need to focus in on the specific claim being made and think about how probable that specific claim is. For example, the notion that I will continue to exist as pretty much the same person after the death of my body and brain is extremely improbable, but the notion that something might survive the death of my body (e.g. some kind of pure consciousness or something) is much more probable. </p>

<p>I feel it&#8217;s pretty important to try to sort these things out, because believers and skeptics have such completely different starting points in all of these debates that they just end up talking past each other, and sometimes just resorting to name-calling and personal attacks.
</p>
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    <entry>
      <title>Philosophy of Cosmos Universe: Objective to Subjective Subjective to Objective</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15672/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2013:forums/viewthread/.15672</id>
      <published>2013-03-08T22:20:16Z</published>
      <updated>2013-03-15T09:03:50Z</updated>
      <author><name>arnoldg</name></author>
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      <![CDATA[
        <p>The effect of the Cosmos Universe is for Interacting and Relating Objects (matter space/time observation/transformation),</p>

<p>Interacting/relating Subjects as Unknown to Known-Particles to Galaxies-Galaxies to Unknown for existence,</p>

<p>By Our observation/transformation of matter in space/time, we find existence for Note-Value-Quality&#8212;-</p>

<p>Our subjective observations interacting and relating objective transformations for Life&#8212;-</p>

<p>What are We here for: From or To the Cosmos Universe or Both
</p>
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