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    <title type="text">CFI Forums</title>
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    <entry>
      <title>Places to Live in Western MI</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15847/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2013:forums/viewthread/.15847</id>
      <published>2013-05-05T09:22:27Z</published>
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      <author><name>Amy33</name></author>
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        <p>After 30 yrs in the Washington DC area, my husband &amp; I are considering moving back to western MI (his family is in the Grand Rapids area). We are both professors and are used to the usual liberal Eastern attitudes on social issues. As is the case with many of our friends here, we are atheists, Democrat/Independent, and have no kids, but we certainly have friends who do believe in a god or supernatural being, vote Republican and have children. We want to trade the traffic and congestion out east for closeness to family, great outdoors and an active lifestyle, but we want to be in a community that will still be diverse and tolerant of religious views (including atheism), political viewpoints, sexual orientation, etc. Any suggestions on (1) which communities might fit the parameters, (2) how to search for such a utopia, and (3) how to meet like-minded people would be much appreciated.
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    <entry>
      <title>Any meetup groups in Hillsdale Co. or Jackson Co.&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15810/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2013:forums/viewthread/.15810</id>
      <published>2013-04-25T13:08:21Z</published>
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      <author><name>VIDEODROME</name></author>
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        <p>I live by the Tri-State border but I commute to college in Jackson, MI. I have tried Googling for meetups and not finding anything close by.
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>CFI Michigan forum use</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/15356/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2012:forums/viewthread/.15356</id>
      <published>2012-12-12T12:03:34Z</published>
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      <author><name>TromboneAndrew</name></author>
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        <p>I was browsing around a bit and ran across this:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.meetup.com/DetroitASH/events/92922452/">http://www.meetup.com/DetroitASH/events/92922452/</a></p>

<p>which I didn&#8217;t know about at all. I would think that something like this would have been posted on here. Well, it is here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.cfimichigan.org/events/event/se-solsticedinner-121312/">http://www.cfimichigan.org/events/event/se-solsticedinner-121312/</a></p>

<p>but not on the forum, here.
</p>
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>What have you been reading&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/4458/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2008:forums/viewthread/.4458</id>
      <published>2008-08-07T09:16:00Z</published>
      <updated>2008-08-07T09:37:37Z</updated>
      <author><name>Jefferson Seaver</name></author>
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        <p>I recently finished Dawkins The God Delusion and enjoyed the read. He did a nice job covering a lot of old arguments against the existence of God in a fresh way that made it worth-the-while despite that I’ve read many others that essentially cover the same ground.</p>

<p>Check out Dawkins Web Site for video clips from personal appearances and other goodies.</p>

<p>An easy, but interesting book I recently read is Is God good, bad, or irrelevant? by Preston Jones (Intervarsity Press). It’s an e-mail exchange between a Christian college professor and Greg Graffin the lead singer of the punk bad Bad Religion who just so happens to have a PhD in evolution from Cornell.
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    <entry>
      <title>Is West Michigan really as conservative as everyone says it is&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/4460/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2008:forums/viewthread/.4460</id>
      <published>2008-08-07T09:26:18Z</published>
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      <author><name>Jefferson Seaver</name></author>
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        <p>West Michigan seems to be getting more diverse&#8230;or is it just that I&#8217;m surrounded by so many freethinkers now?
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    <entry>
      <title>Introduce Yourself</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/4457/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2008:forums/viewthread/.4457</id>
      <published>2008-08-07T09:14:30Z</published>
      <updated>2008-08-07T10:10:06Z</updated>
      <author><name>Jefferson Seaver</name></author>
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      <![CDATA[
        <p>After I found myself with no religion and surrounded by believers, I set out to find others who shared my point of view to talk with. I found a few (2 others to be exact) who met with me around a bon fire in my backyard over 11 years ago. Little did we know all the work we were creating for ourselves and all the friends we’d make along the way. Since then, CFI Michigan (formerly Freethought Association of Michigan) meetings have happened twice a month and our numbers have grown into the hundreds.</p>

<p>Welcome! I hope you find yourself at home here.
</p>
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    <entry>
      <title>How&#8217;s this approach&#63;</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/13310/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2012:forums/viewthread/.13310</id>
      <published>2012-04-29T20:24:40Z</published>
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      <author><name>RonPatrick</name></author>
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        <p>So if the Theist claims that if an alternate atheist moral code doesn&#8217;t progress morally, it only changes because there is no basis(such as the bible), but a theistic moral code actual makes progress. Than both the atheist and the theist agree that both moral codes change. The problem is who decides how the theist&#8217;s moral code should proceed? Did God call down and tell us to abolish slavery before the Civil War or was it we humans who made that decision?
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    <entry>
      <title>Livingston County Area Group</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/12977/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2012:forums/viewthread/.12977</id>
      <published>2012-03-14T09:38:44Z</published>
      <updated>2012-03-14T19:04:17Z</updated>
      <author><name>Zombiefive</name></author>
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        <p>Hello friends and fellow free thinkers.&nbsp; I&#8217;m new to this site so I guess I&#8217;ll just do a quick intro before I post my topic.&nbsp; My name is Larry Hannah and I&#8217;ve been an atheist since I was young.&nbsp; Maybe thirteen or fourteen.&nbsp; Of course I didn&#8217;t know what an atheist was back then but I knew that the things my pastor said started to sound crazy and that was also the first time I had read the bible the whole way through and my only thoughts were that of skepticism and a little WTF haha. I still live in the same town I grew up in.&nbsp; Good ol&#8217; Fowlerville, Mi. with my two sons and wife Andrae. Which brings me to my topic, I feel there is a need for and atheist/free thinkers/secular activist group in this area.&nbsp; Due mostly to the fact that it is a primarily Christian community.&nbsp; You may be thinking that starting a group like this in such a religious community would be &#8220;dangerous&#8221; or unwise but it is communities like this that NEED them to show atheists out there that it is okay to voice their opinions and essentially come out of the atheist closet and let the community know that atheist are everywhere and that were not &#8220;just a bunch of people who don&#8217;t want to get up early on Sunday,&#8221; as one man put it from this area. So i&#8217;m looking for anyone in the Livingston County area that is not afraid to stand up against Christian dominated communities, to start a group with me to meet on a regular basis and give others a place to talk and share like ideas.&nbsp; If interested please E-mail me at zombiefive65 at gmail dot com.
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    </entry>

    <entry>
      <title>Hello</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/12362/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2011:forums/viewthread/.12362</id>
      <published>2011-12-22T04:22:32Z</published>
      <updated></updated>
      <author><name>The Muddler</name></author>
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      <![CDATA[
        <p>It was great to meet folks from this neck of the woods at the recent Solstice party in Ann Arbor. I&#8217;m looking forward to meeting more &#8220;inquiring&#8221; types, and learning more about CFI.</p>

<p>I am recently unchurched, after nearly pursuing a career as a pastor, including an MA in pastoral ministry. I never was fundamentalist, and remain friends with some very progressive Christians who understand that the bible is a myth, that questions and uncertainty are healthy, and that what is important is how we live, not what happens after we die.&nbsp; People in mainline churches joke about &#8220;graduating&#8221; kids out of church when doing &#8220;Confirmation,&#8221;&nbsp; usually at about age 12. Well, I guess I needed to graduate from seminary before I could fly&#8212;call me a slow learner.&nbsp; Perhaps I&#8217;ll still find a way to continue to help with life celebrations like weddings and memorials.</p>

<p>What is important to me? Three things: Affirming the value and joyful wonder of each person and creature and element of nature. Coming together to enjoy life, explore questions and unite resources to make a difference in the world. Taking science seriously to make informed ethical decisions about our life on this planet and the hope for a future worth living for the generations to come. </p>

<p>“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.” <br />
― Margaret Mead
</p>
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    <entry>
      <title>The Recent Talks on Physics</title>
      <link rel="alternate" type="text/html" href="http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/4451/" />      
      <id>tag:centerforinquiry.net,2008:forums/viewthread/.4451</id>
      <published>2008-08-06T11:19:34Z</published>
      <updated></updated>
      <author><name>mburns</name></author>
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      <![CDATA[
        <p>Necessity plus Chance</p>

<p>The presentation by Professor Taner Edis had a most promising title and theme, &#8220;Necessity plus Chance&#8221;, but did not deliver so much insight. There was a list of topics taught in the academic course, and as much strategic exposition as could be fit into the time. One might not wish to criticize the quality of the summary presented. But nothing departed much from convention.&nbsp; No new philosophy was exposed from the possible leads not followed.</p>

<p>What is it that necessitates, and how is chance different from necessity?&nbsp; There is certainly not a God, the Designer, to decide on necessity, since there is no physical mechanism for this sort of design work..&nbsp; Contrary to Derrida and Lakoff, humans do not have the computational power to mandate their own designs as necessary, and thereby project them onto the universe.&nbsp; But mathematics, not as a unified authority but as its sets of contingent possibilities, does have all of the needed power to make for necessity.&nbsp; Chance then becomes the lesser and more rare sort of mathematical axiom.</p>

<p>Range of Expression</p>

<p>Then, what makes for the greater and more ubiquitous sorts of mathematical principles that end up as important physics?&nbsp; Professor Karen Gipson put forward a very key phrase, &#8220;range of expression&#8221;.&nbsp; But I think she meant this to be understood empirically rather than as intrinsic - a misfortune.&nbsp; To be sure, intrinsic properties are more valuable for theoretical understanding.</p>

<p>Consider a comparison of mathematical systems, that are more or less expressive, to play actors that have mastered more or less of their lines.&nbsp; It is practically a truism that actors with more roles mastered are heard more often.&nbsp; So mathematical systems that include more possible expression are to be preferred for theoretical physics. And actors that require particular co-actors, implement only part of their roles or exceed them, or share an identity with other actors are heard less for those reasons.&nbsp; And so it goes with the comparable mathematical systems; they are found less in good physical theory.</p>

<p>Clear and Distinct Ideas versus Anti-intellectualism</p>

<p>But Professor Gipson upheld the utility of models that are false, and of models that do not contribute to understanding.&nbsp; This makes it possible to defend conventional models that have no theoretical merit and require an exercise of compensating errors in order to fit experiment.&nbsp; You might think that this sort of cultural stagnation has been overcome; epicycles are an object for scorn.&nbsp; But no: consider the mathematically defective models used in current physics, such as vectors and magnetic monopoles.</p>

<p>And again, Professor Gipson did not uphold the utility of understanding ideas in academic physics.&nbsp; But Spinoza, by contrast, upheld the central importance of clear and distinct ideas, to the point of choosing them over others for further study.&nbsp; Spinoza asserted that illucidity, unfounded multiplicity, and arbitrariness were among the illusions that arose from inadequate understanding of ideas. So he was the great opponent of the rampant anti-intellectualism of his time.</p>

<p>Liberal psychoanalysts identify early modern times, the 16th century, as psychotic in the degree of its cultural neurosis.&nbsp; The enlightenment was then an attempt at recovery from this neurosis.&nbsp; But the culture of the 1970s was still thought of as severely neurotic by Doctor Theodore Rubin.</p>

<p>So it is well advised and very productive to keep watch for and oppose outcroppings of anti-intellectualism wherever they occur, even in the departments of mathematics and physics.</p>

<p>&#8212;<br />
Michael J. Burns
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