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Do you celebrate Christmas, or some semblance thereof? 
Posted: 26 December 2007 10:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 61 ]
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I do not celebrate christmas

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If the ignorance of nature gave birth to such a variety of gods, the knowledge of this nature is calculated to destroy them. La Système de la Nature, Baron d’Holbach (1723–1789)

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Posted: 26 December 2007 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 62 ]
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HERE is an interesting posting from Alternet on the subject, written by a British humanist.
It is entitled ‘War on Christmas’ Nonsense is a War on Secularists

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Posted: 27 December 2007 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 63 ]
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D.J. was interviewed by Derek Colanduno over at Skepticality for their Christmas episode on the topic of how skeptics and atheists may or may not participate in the holiday season.  While it appears that Skepticality was unable to run the interview, you can find the recording from our end below.  D.J. disagress with Tom Flynn on a number of points which some of you may find interesting.

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/uploads/dj_grothe_skepticality.mp3

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Posted: 28 December 2007 08:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 64 ]
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Silly me ... probably shoulda posted this response here first smile

***

Thanks for uploading that, Thomas.

That was a nice interview with DJ and I go along with much of what he said in the interview. I’ve challenged Flynn’s stance on christmas here before along with thanksgiving and so on and I feel his “anti-claus” persona does more harm than good. I “celebrate” christmas with my wife and daughter without any of the trappings of religion. We don’t go to christmas mass but we sure do love all the christmas carols. We feed the capitalist machine by giving and getting piles and piles of gifts and engage in various levels of gluttony as we put on the pounds while eating anything and everything in sight. Santa is still very real to my daughter and that’s OK with us.

My biggest issue with Flynn is that he has blanket categorized any atheists who “celebrate” christmas as “bad atheists” or people who “need their consciousness raised.” To me, that smacks of arrogance. Going in to work on a day where we are all encouraged to be a little nicer and use the time to reconnect with family and friends is just a little too self-righteous for me.

I agree with DJ and many others here who think it’s a far better idea to embrace the celebration and supplant it from within. We’ve managed to take the religious aspect out of Thanksgiving. It is just as easy to do it for christmas too. I and many of my “bad atheist” friends have done it without any issue.

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Posted: 28 December 2007 09:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 65 ]
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My family has never really “celebrated” Christ per say, but we do exchange gifts, have a christmas tree, stockings, decorations, ect… on Christmas day. Our exchange, is not an act of celebrating Christ, it’s simply a tradition and just an excuse more then anything to party, have fun, exchange gifts, and see family. Of course the tradition comes from generations that actually really were celebrating christ, but for us, we just do it because it’s fun.

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Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. - Lao Tzu
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Posted: 28 December 2007 09:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 66 ]
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While I have expressed that I do like to celebrate with a secular ritual at this time of year, I think that Tom makes many valid points about the christian nature of christmas.  While I agree with his detractors that much of what many people practice under the name of christmas is not the least bit christian, I also agree with Tom that much about christmas is very christian.  And I think that it is naive for non-religious persons to ignore this.  The very word “christmas,” for example, refers to a “christ mass.” And a “christ mass” is clearly something that non-christian persons would not be interested in being a part of.  Similarly, there are many morally repugnant christian fables that deserve no repeating around winter time.  I have many jewish friends who outright reject the celebration of christmas in support of their own hannukah.  Why should secularists be any more accommodating?  Are we really so accustomed to riding at the back of the bus?

So why not celebrate the winter solstice for what it actually is, and why not go all the way in taking the “christ” out of christmas?  While it may be true that the winter solstice was celebrated by many pagan peoples across history, it is actually the solstice that is unknowingly being celebrated by christians and jews under the false names of christmas and hannukah.  The solstice is not an “alternative” holiday to christmas.  Nor is it a pagan phenomenon.  It is an actual natural astronomical occurrence.  Just take a look outside your window at how dark it has gotten.  It is, quite simply, the shortest and darkest day of the year.  And, it is the real reason why people have celebrated christmas, hannukah, and a variety of pagan holidays over the centuries at this time of year.  Pagans, christians and jews alike may have noticed the winter solstice, but so especially ought naturalists.  Are we, who are naturalists, not persons in awe of nature?

I say keep all the good parts that you like.  Send out solstice cards.  Put up a tree with beautiful lights and decorate the house with holly and ivy and pine wreaths and pine cones.  Enjoy hot spiced wine, cider or egg nog and a delicious family dinner.  Enjoy good choral or brass music.  Visit the ballet.  Cozy up, away from the cold outside, and exchange gifts with loved ones.  Also, consider the celebration of midsummer in Scandinavian countries.  There are also many pagan practices associated with its traditions.  But beneath it all, isn’t it just a celebration for the longest day of the year?  I think that naturalists ought to have a big party then too.

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Posted: 28 December 2007 10:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 67 ]
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Thanks for posting this here Thomas. We spent most of the day on Christmas Day re-wiring our studio here at Batpig Studios to get out a Christmas episode. I had interviewed about 12 big name Skeptics and thinkers over the 2 weeks before Christmas, and we were SUPPOSED to have all those in a big Christmas Eve episode. Then, our equipment and setup went all sideways…

What I *AM* going to do is package up all the ones we didn’t use and put them up for download on our website, and possibly just create another episode on our feed to get them out. Even though it is after the holiday, I think most of the answers and questions and commentary we received during those interviews should get out to everyone! smile

Derek C.

Thomas Donnelly - 27 December 2007 03:07 PM

D.J. was interviewed by Derek Colanduno over at Skepticality for their Christmas episode on the topic of how skeptics and atheists may or may not participate in the holiday season.  While it appears that Skepticality was unable to run the interview, you can find the recording from our end below.  D.J. disagress with Tom Flynn on a number of points which some of you may find interesting.

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/uploads/dj_grothe_skepticality.mp3

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Posted: 28 December 2007 11:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 68 ]
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Thomas Donnelly - 27 December 2007 03:07 PM

D.J. was interviewed by Derek Colanduno over at Skepticality for their Christmas episode on the topic of how skeptics and atheists may or may not participate in the holiday season.  While it appears that Skepticality was unable to run the interview, you can find the recording from our end below.  D.J. disagress with Tom Flynn on a number of points which some of you may find interesting.

http://www.centerforinquiry.net/uploads/dj_grothe_skepticality.mp3

Thanks Thomas!

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Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime. - Lao Tzu
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