vanessa - 28 January 2008 09:19 AM

I’m not sure I understand, though, that believing in a “higher” purpose denies the pursuit of “true” meaning.  Is there some absolute “true” meaning that we should be pursuing?

In recognition of disagreements elsewhere on this forum about relativism & realism, perhaps it was unclear of me to use the term “true” in relation to meaning.  There is no meaning “out there in heaven.” There is no meaning or purpose beyond that which we give ourselves.  Social cooperation and ethics not withstanding.

Meaning is something that we, as humans (or self aware animals) create.  This is the sense that I was referring to in using the word “true.” To seek meaning outside of ourselves, or to look for meaning outside of ourselves without passing by way through ourselves, is to be distracted from the “truth” that all meaning stems from the self.  External meaning is something that is projected from the human imagination.

vanessa - 28 January 2008 09:19 AM

I’m also not sure that there is any “eternal significance” of our lives, aside from the impact we have on others.  I’d like to understand more about the permanence you refer to.

Our lives are significant because they matter to us, and they matter to others because we are in contact with each other.  This should not be taken as belittling of life or the individual.  I think it should be regarded as ennobling.

By living, we are constantly undergoing changes as we grow.  We are not yet fully defined, in the sense that a rock or a table or some other object is a set thing.  Sure a rock or a table can physically change just as a person’s body can change, but it is not just our body that is constantly undergoing change when we live.  It is also our identity.  And since our identity is not yet fixed, when we live we are involved in “a process of becoming.”

There is what you “are” now and there is what you “were” yesterday.  So it makes sense that an end is necessary in order for the whole of our lives to fully become a single something.  Of course, it is not simply enough to die.  One must first live in order that they may die.  And one cannot accomplish anything by trying to expedite the process.  For it is the way we live that is the measure of who we will become when we die.

erasmus,

Excellent and very poetic comments, thanks!

erasmusinfinity - 28 January 2008 10:55 AM

And since our identity is not yet fixed, when we live we are involved in “a process of becoming.” There is what you “are” now and there is what you “were” yesterday.  So it makes sense that an end is necessary in order for the whole of our lives to fully become a single something.  Of course, it is not simply enough to die.  One must first live in order that they may die.  And one cannot accomplish anything by trying to expedite the process.  For it is the way we live that is the measure of who we will become when we die.

Wow.  Beautiful ideas eloquently stated.  I love the idea of a “process of becoming” that continues throughout life.  It allows for freedom to change--yourself and your life.  Even if you find yourself facing an existential crisis, you might take comfort in the fact that this struggle--this experience--will become a part of the person you are when you emerge.  It goes with the idea of embracing the challenging emotions in our lives just as we celebrate the affirmations.  Nice.

Vanessa

Thanks.  I believe that the credit for the “process of becoming” part goes to Sartre’s Being and Nothingness, if my memory recalls properly.  Although, I think that I have shifted the context of his point quite a bit.

To be clear though, I certainly wouldn’t recommend a reading of Sartre to someone who currently feels in the midst of an existential crisis.  While he was brilliant and did assert that “Existentialism is A Humanism,” he did not offer the sorts of affirmative life stances that can best help us to deal with our instinctual animal feelings about mortality.

In my opinion, Paul Kurtz is particularly inspiring when he discusses “The Courage to Become.” Also, George’s earlier reading recommendations are exceptional choices.

mckenzie,

I am not familiar with the writings of Nhat Hanh.  Can you recommend something?

HERE is a short bibliography. I especially enjoyed Touching Peace: The Art of Mindful Living.

Yes, its very painful when any loved one leaves this world. But Imagine, what would have happened, if nobody have ever died on this earth?  Death is an inevitable truth of life.

As Gurumaa rightly puts in:http://www.gurumaa.com/videos/death-and-life.html

Death completes the circle of life. It is not the enemy of life rather gives a meaning to it. Death is not an incident that
happens after a few years of birth, it is that continuous process through which our body grows. Human body is composed of
numerous cells, tissues and since childhood hundreds of cells die & new ones take birth. Had this not been the case our body
would never grow. Understand the reality of death with a scientific outlook shown by Gurumaaji.

Don’t be a believer, be a seeker.
--Prashant

Edited to remove advertising content. This comes very close to spam.

dougsmith—Admin

I battled depression most of my life and the way I deal it is I do what I like to do, that simple. Whether it be going to a concert, taking a skiing trip or getting a good book.  It doesn’t matter how down I am, the moment I start preparing for what I want, my entire brain chemistry starts to transform. I do believe and I do pray too, this however never stops me from getting off my rear end and taking the actions I am supposed to take to keep myself within the safely zone. Reading self help books helped in learning to deal with myself.
It’s up to you Vanessa to find out what the other person is into, once you do and manage to bring their own element to their doorstep, I’d be surprised if light won’t start to shine out of their own eyes. I think this is an excellent way of atering their own brain chemistry, it always worked for me anyway.

As far as life’s meaning and purpose in general, I remember I’ve seen this really cool movie with Anthony Hawpkins titled “The indian”, it’s about this kiwi who broke a world record speed to, at the time 200 miles per hour, custom modifying the engine to his motorcycle using really primitive basic stuff. At one point somebody asked I think if he wasn’t afraid of dying or something like that, and he responded something along the lines of “5 minutes on top of his bike at such speed is better than living undefinitely else where.” I think if one can work to maximize those types of moments they would have made their own lives worth living regardless of wether there is a god or not, and I am in no way meaning life has to be about speed and bikes. There are number of fieds within which the human spirit can soar to great heights that has nothing to do with metal and rubber. That was really really good movie.

As far as reading, You might want to get them a copy of “feeling good therapy” by Dr. David Burns. It’s a book that demonstrates managing depression without using any meds. I read it long time ago, I forgot its details, but it’s A Terrific Book. You can read it with them to help them come back out.

Also, in the case of being depressed over a loved one’s passing, there is a period over which it is natural and in fact expected for one to go into mourning mode. That is normal, it is unreasonable to expect one to get over such severance in couple of days or even weeks or months. When that’s that case, they just have to be given enough space to deal with it while offering support when needed. If they cling to the dead persons’ skirts undefinitely, that becomes a problem and that’s when therapy needs to intervene.