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Hell as a Threat
Posted: 15 March 2011 12:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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PLaClair - 15 March 2011 11:47 AM

Not until I was in my forties did I stop having nightmares.

FYI, I don’t believe you.

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Posted: 15 March 2011 02:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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George - 15 March 2011 12:26 PM
PLaClair - 15 March 2011 11:47 AM

Not until I was in my forties did I stop having nightmares.

FYI, I don’t believe you.

Why not? It’s true.

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I cannot in good conscience support CFI under the current leadership. I am here in dissent and in support of a Humanism that honors and respects everyone.

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Posted: 15 March 2011 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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OTOH, I just posted something about my fear of a nuclear war in another thread—a fear which surely resulted from the communists scaring us on daily basis—and I still have the same nightmares now as I did when I was a kid, where I see a slowly approaching atomic bomb in the sky after which it explodes and I slowly die. It’s just that I find it difficult to image that somebody could be afraid of hell, especially a forty-year old man. But I guess it’s possible. I take my disbelief back.  grin

[ Edited: 15 March 2011 06:04 PM by George ]
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Posted: 15 March 2011 03:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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My dad once said, “You have to put the fear of God into people or scare the hell out of them.” This little gem of wisdom explains worlds about why Christians have such a bad rep. If Christians actually follow the teachings of Christ and the examples we have been given of His behavior, no one would be getting in other people’s faces and shouting their condemnation. I am weary of hell being used as a conversion tool. Bullying people into “believing” what you believe by terrifying them with eternal damnation is detrimental. When faith is forced, crammed, shoved, or instilled by means of duress and threat, it is no longer faith. It becomes a reaction to the negative stimulus and does not bear the positive. I am sorry hell is still being used to cajole people into a belief system. It shows a flaw in the faith on the part of the witnessing Christian. After all, the message as it was given by the Teacher is more than adequate without the necessity of our personal damnation upon others. It’s a gift. We are supposed to leave it, as is, for others to acknowledge and accept or decline.

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Posted: 15 March 2011 04:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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I agree, VHS, as well as the quotation someone posted in this forum a few months ago about the minister who warned his congregation to avoid critical thinking and logic because they are tools of the devil.

Occam

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Posted: 15 March 2011 05:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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Scndthe2nd - 05 March 2011 11:21 AM

I’m a 20something college student, and everywhere i look, I seem to be drowning in Jesus.

I think I’ve found the most offensive thing someone has said to me—mocking that I’d be tortured in hell for eternity. I really can’t tolerate anything like this ever again, I’ve had people talk at me before about their religious views, but putting a threat against me of eternal torture is the most ballsy and offensive thing I’ve heard.

Gods are proxy for most believers, they can shift blame to them for life happenings like a child blaming the cat for knocking over the flowerpot. Just like an agitated parent, I’m not going to accept this proxy anymore. I’ve decided to take this no less than a personal threat, as if someone we’re mugging me or threatening me with a knife. I don’t believe in your gods, that means that when your outspoken beliefs threaten my personal safety and comfort, I’m pointing at you for the blame.

Just because you believe in gods doesn’t give you a free pass to be an ass.

I’m going to start choking up on the bat too. People who use their religion as an excuse for something that affects other people (You know, like people I’ve found on this forum)—I’m going to treat them like I’d treat any other religious extremist—Like a Psychopath with a bomb.

Has anyone else gone through this?

Compared to their ideal heaven, hell seemed the preferable place to end up. Really what the hell does heaven have to offer that you’d be interested in? Ask them, see if they can come up with something you’d want to put up with for all eternity.

I’d rather struggle, learn, fail, overcome. I think perfection would become boring after about an hour. Besides I suspect most my friends would be in hell. Who would want to spend all-eternity with a bunch of dick-head Christians? That’d be my definition of eternal torture.

Eternal torture isn’t much of a threat considering the alternative.

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Posted: 15 March 2011 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Occam. - 15 March 2011 04:38 PM

I agree, VHS, as well as the quotation someone posted in this forum a few months ago about the minister who warned his congregation to avoid critical thinking and logic because they are tools of the devil.

Occam

That is abhorrent! That is a minister who is either low on personal faith or wishes to maintain control over his congregation. Either way, it is sad.

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Posted: 15 March 2011 05:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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PLaClair - 15 March 2011 02:06 PM
George - 15 March 2011 12:26 PM
PLaClair - 15 March 2011 11:47 AM

Not until I was in my forties did I stop having nightmares.

FYI, I don’t believe you.

Why not? It’s true.

PLaClair, for what it’s worth, I believe you.  I have met others who have had such dreams for many years after they left the Church.  It is part of something that Dr. Marlene Winell case Religious Trauma Syndrome (RTS).  Not everyone who leaves the Church has dreams about hell, but there are people who do.

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 15 March 2011 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Occam. - 05 March 2011 03:03 PM

Yes, I think many of us have been exposed to that.  The first time was when I was about fifteen when I was at a friend’s place and two young Mormon missionaries came by and started talking to the kids.  I didn’t bother getting involved until they began to threaten the younger cnildren with hell’s damnation if they didn’t accept religion.  That annoyed me so I responded with all sorts of obnoxious biblical quotes (I had just finished reading my father’s copy of “The Bible Unmasked” and I’ve always had a great memory), and demanding that they open their bibles to see if I was lying or telling the truth.  Then I asked how they felt knowing deep, deep down, that there was no after liife and that their bodies would just be stuck in a tight little casket underground where they couldn’t move and while worms and bacteria slowly ate and digested them.  I was a sarcastic SOB when I was a teen-ager, but they deserved it for preying on the children.  And that’s how you deal with religious assholes who attack. snake

Occam

I think now a-days just invite them in and have them watch the South Park episode on the Mormon religion.

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Posted: 15 March 2011 06:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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When you’re told at the age of three (and probably before that) that you’re going to burn in hell forever, it leaves a mark.

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I cannot in good conscience support CFI under the current leadership. I am here in dissent and in support of a Humanism that honors and respects everyone.

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Posted: 15 March 2011 06:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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PLaClair - 15 March 2011 06:41 PM

When you’re told at the age of three (and probably before that) that you’re going to burn in hell forever, it leaves a mark.

Yes, it does and that the one of many points that Marlene, Valerie, Darrell and others have made, esp on the psychological level.  It can even stunts emotional development.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 15 March 2011 07:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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PLaClair - 15 March 2011 06:41 PM

When you’re told at the age of three (and probably before that) that you’re going to burn in hell forever, it leaves a mark.

No one should tell a child that. Talk about missing the point of the message! You bet it leaves a mark. I was told at age 17 that I was going to hell by my father and sister. A year later, my mother passed. Needless to say, it left a mark. I spent a good while being mad at God for taking her when I still needed her. I thought my family was completely out of line and pretty cruel for their judgment, but it took a while for me to realize they might be wrong. It took years to find any peace of mind. I no longer accept other people’s judgment. My relationship with God is personal and I do not believe people have the authority to damn me or anyone else. It is above our pay grade.

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Posted: 17 March 2011 02:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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George - 15 March 2011 02:22 PM

OTOH, I just posted something about my fear of a nuclear war in another thread—a fear which surely resulted from the communists scaring us on daily basis—and I still have the same nightmares now as I did when I was a kid, where I see a slowly approaching atomic bomb in the sky after which it explodes and I slowly die. It’s just that I find it difficult to image that somebody could be afraid of hell, especially a forty-year old man. But I guess it’s possible. I take my disbelief back.  grin

You sure it was the Commies that scared you, not US politicians.  Hell, all we had to do to survive was hide under our desks, or so I was trained in the third grade.

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All the Gods and all religions are created by humans, to meet human needs and accomplish human ends.

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Posted: 17 March 2011 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Occam. - 15 March 2011 04:38 PM

I agree, VHS, as well as the quotation someone posted in this forum a few months ago about the minister who warned his congregation to avoid critical thinking and logic because they are tools of the devil.

“Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has; it never comes to the aid of spiritual things, but - more frequently than not - struggles against the divine Word, treating with contempt all that emanates from God” ...  Martin Luther

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Posted: 17 March 2011 03:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Occam. - 05 March 2011 03:03 PM

And that’s how you deal with religious assholes who attack.

“When Religious Assholes Attack”  I think that’s a show on Animal Planet.  If it’s not it should be.  It could teach people how to defend themselves and how to avoid getting in those situations in the first place.

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