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Is Libya no-fly zone an example of a “Just War?”
Posted: 20 March 2011 09:09 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I’m interested in what people here think about this topic.

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Posted: 20 March 2011 09:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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brightfut - 20 March 2011 09:09 AM

I’m interested in what people here think about this topic.

While it may become a war, I see the current mission as the defense of a people from a kook with weapons. Given that we have not defended others in similar situations, I have to believe that oil is a motivator.
What really helps me see this current effort as “just” is the fact that Arabian leaders agree with the mission and we are not a unilateral force. I think Obama has handled it very well thus far. Some believe we should have acted sooner. I do not. We had to give the opposition a chance to fend for themselves first. When that failed, we acted pretty quickly.

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Posted: 20 March 2011 09:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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As a retired Navyman, I can see where war may be jutified and perhaps even necessery in some instances. By the same token, I can also see where such conflict could have been avoided in most though not all such instances if the so-called statesmen and diplomats had been doing their jobs.

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Posted: 20 March 2011 10:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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It’s too early to tell. Much depends on how much the Arab League is going to commit to helping out. Especially Egypt, I think, if they get their democracy working quickly enough.

I’d say that it’s “justified” if the intervention helps to end it quickly.

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Posted: 20 March 2011 11:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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traveler - 20 March 2011 09:23 AM

While it may become a war, I see the current mission as the defense of a people from a kook with weapons. Given that we have not defended others in similar situations, I have to believe that oil is a motivator.

Well, there was that whole Yugoslavia/Kosovo/Bosnia thing in the 90’s, but one could argue that had the potential to destabilize Europe (since this had happened before ... courtesy of an already tense Europe and the ignition of WWI by one Gavrilo Princip ... with horrible consequences).

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Posted: 20 March 2011 12:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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pyruvate - 20 March 2011 11:02 AM
traveler - 20 March 2011 09:23 AM

While it may become a war, I see the current mission as the defense of a people from a kook with weapons. Given that we have not defended others in similar situations, I have to believe that oil is a motivator.

Well, there was that whole Yugoslavia/Kosovo/Bosnia thing in the 90’s, but one could argue that had the potential to destabilize Europe (since this had happened before ... courtesy of an already tense Europe and the ignition of WWI by one Gavrilo Princip ... with horrible consequences).

Good point, derivative of pyruvic acid LOL

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Posted: 20 March 2011 05:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I did enjoy the few seconds of an interview I happened to hear as I was driving earlier today.  The two Republican guests felt what Obama allowed was completely wrong.  When the interviewer asked if they thought Bush’s invasion of Iraq was also wrong, they said that was a totally different situation that was justified. I wish I could have stayed in the car to hear the rest of their discussion and who they were. smile

Occam

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Posted: 20 March 2011 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Why was Obama in such a rush to go to war?  33 days from uprising to warmonger Obama bombing?!  That’s a rush to war!

Why didn’t he give sanctions time to work? 

Why isn’t he trying to get UN inspectors to go in and assess the situation?

Perhaps his increased attacks in nuclear-armed Pakistan has not produced enough bodies for his liking.

Perhaps the Nobel Peace Prize winner’s bloodthirsty appetite has not been quenched by his policy of assassinating US citizens without a trial, so now he’s added killing Libyans to his warmongering blood lust. 

If any prisoners are captured in Libya will they be sent to the still-not-closed GITMO where Obama has decided to restart military trials?

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

No blood for oil!

Obama lied, people died! 

Let the special pleading from the left begin!  confused

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Posted: 20 March 2011 08:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Why didn’t he give sanctions time to work?

Something about the rebels being on the verge of being overrun and stomped into the ground by Gaddafi’s forces and volunteer thugs. Now that these same people no longer enjoy any air support, the game has changed a bit.

Whether or not it’s changed enough to make a difference for the rebels remains to be seen.

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Posted: 21 March 2011 06:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Rocinante - 20 March 2011 06:34 PM

Why was Obama in such a rush to go to war?  33 days from uprising to warmonger Obama bombing?!  That’s a rush to war!

Why didn’t he give sanctions time to work? 

Why isn’t he trying to get UN inspectors to go in and assess the situation?

Perhaps his increased attacks in nuclear-armed Pakistan has not produced enough bodies for his liking.

Perhaps the Nobel Peace Prize winner’s bloodthirsty appetite has not been quenched by his policy of assassinating US citizens without a trial, so now he’s added killing Libyans to his warmongering blood lust. 

If any prisoners are captured in Libya will they be sent to the still-not-closed GITMO where Obama has decided to restart military trials?

All we are saying is give peace a chance!

No blood for oil!

Obama lied, people died! 

Let the special pleading from the left begin!  confused

John Lennon must be rolling in his grave. Keeping a government from killing its masses is just. Obama lied, people died rhymes but that doesn’t make it true. If the glove fits… If Obama makes you mad, then you must have been absolutely furious during the 8 years of GWB. Look on the bright side, this is better.

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Posted: 21 March 2011 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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The problem I have with all of this for the moment at least is there doesn’t seem to be anything on the table which a reasonable person might confuse for a plan.

Keeping a maniac from killing his own people…especially innocent civilians who don’t much care either way who’s running the show…is just, but once this is worked out, what then? The cry is for no boots on the ground, but airpower can only do so much. Remember that in Bosnia, airpower had the Bad Guys ducking for cover, but they didn’t cry “Uncle” until NATO threatened to send in the groundpounders!

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Posted: 21 March 2011 09:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 21 March 2011 08:43 AM

The problem I have with all of this for the moment at least is there doesn’t seem to be anything on the table which a reasonable person might confuse for a plan.

Keeping a maniac from killing his own people…especially innocent civilians who don’t much care either way who’s running the show…is just, but once this is worked out, what then? The cry is for no boots on the ground, but airpower can only do so much. Remember that in Bosnia, airpower had the Bad Guys ducking for cover, but they didn’t cry “Uncle” until NATO threatened to send in the groundpounders!

I agree with that.

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Posted: 21 March 2011 09:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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traveler - 21 March 2011 06:06 AM

John Lennon must be rolling in his grave. Keeping a government from killing its masses is just. Obama lied, people died rhymes but that doesn’t make it true. If the glove fits… If Obama makes you mad, then you must have been absolutely furious during the 8 years of GWB. Look on the bright side, this is better.

Apparently people have missed the fact that I was being sarcastic.  surprised  I was simply repeating the exact same things the loony left said when Bush was President.  But now that Obama is President, many on the left won’t apply the same standards to Obama as they did to Bush. 

As for me, I don’t like war, but I know that - unfortunately - it is sometimes a necessary evil.  The world is better off without Saddam Hussein.  The world will be better off without Ghadaffi.  Bush did the right thing getting rid of Hussein.  Obama is doing the right thing in getting rid of Ghadaffi.  I am simply being consistent.

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Posted: 21 March 2011 09:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I don’t see that as consistent. GWB did not say getting rid of Hussein was the mission. Rather, he lied about WMD. Then after none were found he tried to say, well it was still a good idea.

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Posted: 21 March 2011 09:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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But now that Obama is President, many on the left won’t apply the same standards to Obama as they did to Bush.

And the left will do the same thing when a conservative is in the Oval Office. It ain’t called “Politricks” for nuthin’ ! wink

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Posted: 21 March 2011 11:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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traveler - 21 March 2011 09:17 AM

I don’t see that as consistent. GWB did not say getting rid of Hussein was the mission.

“...our decision to enforce the Security Council resolutions and remove Saddam Hussein from power.” [Emphasis added.]

—President George W. Bush September 7, 2003.

traveler - 21 March 2011 09:17 AM

Rather, he lied about WMD.

In order to lie about WMDs, Bush would have had to known beforehand that Saddam was bluffing about them.  That would require godlike omniscience.  I doubt you believe in such magical thinking, rather you are probably allowing an ideology to trump rational thought.  Since every intelligence agency on the planet (including most prominent elected Democrats with access to that intel) thought Saddam still had them (remember, he had already used them), it is more than disingenuous for anyone to use that tired, trite, bumper sticker platitude of “Bush lied, people died” nonsense (remember, I was being sarcastic in my above paraphrase).  Being honestly mistaken about a grave matter is not a lie.

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There are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation.

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