OK

OGMONKEY - 27 April 2011 08:40 PM

What do you think?

I think you have abnormally high tendencies to detect false positives. Probably some kind of a disorder.

Religion is a disorder.  I think I came to the wrong place to talk about these things.  People are quick to assume “disorder” when they themselves cannot explain what’s going on.  It’s more of a gift passed on generation after generation.  Hope you all absorbed it.  Feed feed…

GOOD DAY to YOU

It’s more of a gift passed on generation after generation

Not really, and if you want to see out of body experiences explained, go to http://www.skepdic.com/obe.html and http://www.skepdic.com/nde.html

Be sure to follow ALL of the links to see the give and take on this as well as the sources used.

OGMONKEY - 28 April 2011 09:12 AM

Religion is a disorder.  I think I came to the wrong place to talk about these things.  People are quick to assume “disorder” when they themselves cannot explain what’s going on.  It’s more of a gift passed on generation after generation.  Hope you all absorbed it.  Feed feed…

GOOD DAY to YOU

Did you come here for a discussion and questions, or for a cadre of ‘yes’ men? It looks like forum members are trying to have a discussion, but you are unwilling to closely examine your beliefs.

‘yes’  ......I’m here to talk.  I was asked to come here and seek information.  What I’m understanding is there are all skeptics here.  This person that recommended CSI to me was pretty much saying something is wrong with me.  What an ass he must be.  I asked about some ufo pictures that I need analyzed and he said come here.  Well who can help?  I have some and need people like you to TRY and explain it.  Also a super clear picture of an entity taken.  Clear as day but It’s not there right.  All in my head?  I’m so amused by this website…My main reason was to get some odd pictures looked at.  Maybe relate to some. 

I’m not religious.  I did not grow up in that environment.  I have had many strange experiences and wished to share them.  If I’m in the wrong place then I should go.

Forget the yes men..you have something in your teeth with that big old smile.  Try to answer a question PLEASE instead of asking one.

I’n order not to exist…..it MUST

      -ogmonkey

OGMONKEY - 28 April 2011 04:42 PM

‘yes’  ......I’m here to talk.  I was asked to come here and seek information.  What I’m understanding is there are all skeptics here.  This person that recommended CSI to me was pretty much saying something is wrong with me.  What an ass he must be.  I asked about some ufo pictures that I need analyzed and he said come here.  Well who can help?  I have some and need people like you to TRY and explain it.  Also a super clear picture of an entity taken.  Clear as day but It’s not there right.  All in my head?  I’m so amused by this website…My main reason was to get some odd pictures looked at.  Maybe relate to some. 

I’m not religious.  I did not grow up in that environment.  I have had many strange experiences and wished to share them.  If I’m in the wrong place then I should go.

Forget the yes men..you have something in your teeth with that big old smile.  Try to answer a question PLEASE instead of asking one.

I’n order not to exist…..it MUST

      -ogmonkey

If you have some odd pics to be investigated,you should contact Joe Nickell

What I’m understanding is there are all skeptics here.

And on a frum sponsored by a skeptical organization, you expected what? A gathering of the credulous?

And in terms of answering your question, did you even bother the read the links I posted? The Skeptic’s Dictionary is a wonderful resource for starting some research in the very phenomenon you’re interested in.

OGMONKEY - 28 April 2011 04:42 PM

Also a super clear picture of an entity taken.  Clear as day but It’s not there right.  All in my head?  I’m so amused by this website…My main reason was to get some odd pictures looked at.  Maybe relate to some. 

That’s great that you’re skeptical of our skepticism. Helps to keep things honest, IMHO.

And, if you have a photograph there’s obviously something that isn’t just “in your head.”

Unfortunately, photographic evidence nowadays isn’t really that strong. It’s too easy to manipulate photos with even some basic available software life Corel and to get forgeries to look really good. The best forgeries require someone who can look at a photo at the digital level (individual pixels) to be able to tell. I could be wrong, but I don’t know of anyone on this forum who is good at validating digital photos.

Sorry, but I think some of you are a bit too fast. OBEs exist, people have them, and it is an issue to explain them. The ‘it is just an illusion’ and ‘see a psychiatrist’ will not do. Do not forget that the ‘E’ of OBE stands for ‘experience’. Having an experience is one, taking the simplest interpretation is two. There are two too simple answers on the question of what OBEs are: the above ‘it is just an illusion’, and the ‘I know I have a soul, I saw I floated above my body, I saw it’.

The fact that people have them, and that they experience them as real, or even more real than normal daily experience, says something about our mind. A theory of mind that is advanced enough must explain why people have these experiences.

As a parallel: to say that the aura that people with migraine have is ‘just an illusion’ is hardly an explanation. And it needs an explanation, as many migraine patients see them:

Understanding at least a part of the neural mechanism behind migraine made it possible to generate such auras on the computer, based on a neural simulation. That is really a part of understanding auras. If you don’t know anything about OBEs, then please keep your mouth shut, and do not annoy somebody as you did with OGMONKEY. He even deleted his posting, so I cannot even read it anymore.

Your reactions are as stupid as that of a new age believer. You just stick to what you prefer to believe.

For literature about OBEs from a skeptical and scientific viewpoint, see for example:

“Beyond the Body: An Investigation of Out-Of-The-Body Experiences”, by Susan Blackmore (well known skeptic, who had an intensive OBE herself)
“The Ego Tunnel - The Science of the Mind and the Myth of the Self”, by Thomas Metzinger (philosopher, had several OBEs and lucid dreams)

I don’t see a problem with people experiencing OBEs, NDEa, UFOs or whatever else. It’s the way they respond to such experiences. OGMONKEY’s reaction was that of a person with abnormally high tendencies to detect false positives (here and in other threads). And I thought I was being polite calling it a disorder.

George - 29 April 2011 07:05 AM

I don’t see a problem with people experiencing OBEs, NDEa, UFOs or whatever else. It’s the way they respond to such experiences. OGMONKEY’s reaction was that of a person with abnormally high tendencies to detect false positives (here and in other threads). And I thought I was being polite calling it a disorder.

Maybe. I cannot read it anymore…

Well, I’ll throw an experience out there just for the heck of it.

I was asleep but had a very lucid dream of walking around my house. I went into my garage. As I looked up into the rafters I felt/saw an evil presence. I panicked and turned to run of the garage however I couldn’t seem to grasp the door knob of the door that opened into the house. I was really getting scared and after several tries managed to pull/wrench the door open and run inside. A moment later I was being woken by my son who was about 10 at the time. He had been down stairs watching TV and had become scared because a moment before the door next to him, that went into the garage had opened and closed by itself as it someone had entered or left the garage, but no one was there.

I told him about the dream I was just having. It was kind of a freaky coincidence that he remembers 11 years later and still reminds me about from time to time. In fact the other night he had been watching the movie “Insidious” were circumstance similar to our experience occurred and he reminding me about this event. 

I’ve had other experiences and at those times I suspected I was dreaming but couldn’t be sure at the time because everything seemed real. As real as any waking experience. However you wake up and accept it wasn’t an actual physical experience. Still if you never woke up, you wouldn’t know that your reality wasn’t real.

The goal here is for everyone to learn.  Not just me but YOU also.  Do you not see what I see here in this forum?

Here’s one.  I have mitral valve regurgitation and had my heart stop 3 times in High school.  I did not see or remember anything.  No white light.  Does this true statement make you feel better?  I’m skeptic. Am I worthy?  I would love to see you all on the street(promise not a threat) so that I would shock you all like I do to most.  It’s been said never judge a book by it’s cover but I say just don’t judge me unless you are ready for the same.  I’m on a higher level than most here, looking down on YOU now.  Me with my supposed disorder, am finding some here not even worth talking to.  I took time to write what I “experienced.”  Only to erase it because you all(some) don’t deserve the privilege to even hear such things.  I wont give up on some of you that easy.  Just hear me out when I ask for help and input and maybe some might relate.  Save the comments that might bother a person please. Take time to analyze my stories.  You might get something out of it.  If you’re not willing to listen and allow me to share then your little fellow to me…

Had a few OBE’s myself, during times of serious illness, wherein I “went” to a beautiful and mysterious “place” and “met” some strange and misty, let’s call them for want of a better description “entities”, who told me certain things that didn’t register consciously, but later, after I recovered, it seemed like I just KNEW the answers to certain questions…..

“New Agers” will rave breathlessly about meeting Spirit Guides, Skeptics (so-called) will talk about oxygen deprivation and random firing of neurons; me, I prefer to reserve judgement until new data comes along. These experiences “happened” to me,and no-one can “prove” they didn’t, but leaping to premature conclusions - and then, perhaps, defending those conclusions against all odds despite new evidence - isn’t terribly helpful.

And, no, I’m not epileptic, and what I had weren’t mini strokes.

Ogmonkey, your experiences sound extremely interesting, and I’d like to hear more. We’re not all debunkers here.

(I’ve had a couple of UFO experiences too; one glowing green Daylight Disc, and an apparent meteor that CHANGED DIRECTION.

Theflyingsorcerer.

These experiences “happened” to me,and no-one can “prove” they didn’t, but leaping to premature conclusions - and then, perhaps, defending those conclusions against all odds despite new evidence - isn’t terribly helpful.

We’re not leaping to conclusions on this. Most of us here are dismissive of this sort of thing precisely because a close examination of all the available facts and the evidence do NOT support the conclusion you’re trying to argue for.

As to debunking, if you think that’s what rational skepticism is about, then you’re misunderstanding what it’s all about. You might want to keep in mind however that if what you’re trying to champion was even real and verifiably so, it would survive and even thrive in the face of every possible test.