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A Metaphysics introduces himself, or just call me Kurt ~
Posted: 09 May 2011 11:45 PM   [ Ignore ]
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Hello all! Umm’ I post on many forums and was looking to expand my adventures! However I am a Metaphysicaist/thiest, shades of Kurt Gödel and martin Luther, and the contemporary Christian apologist William Craig.  I did not know this was a primarily secular humanists kind of place, but since I have went to the trouble of registering I may lurk for a while. Rhb.

Please read the forum rules.  They state quite specifically that blue is reserved for moderator comments.  Please change the color of your sig, below.  -  Occam

[ Edited: 13 May 2011 05:24 PM by Occam. ]
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I have learned silence from the talkative, tolerance from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet strangely, I am ungrateful to these teachers” ‘Gibran’

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Posted: 10 May 2011 09:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Welcome and feel free to not only lurk, but jump into any conversations you like.  smile  We don’t bite.  Well some might, but it’s not that hard.  smile

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 10 May 2011 10:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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RevHeadBanger - 09 May 2011 11:45 PM

I am a Metaphysicaist/thiest

What’s a Metaphysicaist/thiest?

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Posted: 10 May 2011 01:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I was wondering the same thing George. Doesn’t really matter. Anyone who follows William Lane Craig is unlikely to fit in around here. The man is crazy, and his arguments so transparently fallacious a third grader could refute them.

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You cannot have a rational conversation with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

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Posted: 10 May 2011 01:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I think I understand the psychology behind the title of a “Metaphysicaist/thiest.” It means that one believes in God but doesn’t share the level of intelligence with other theists.  cheese

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Posted: 10 May 2011 05:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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LOL I was thinking along the same lines, but was trying to be nice in his intro thread.

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Posted: 11 May 2011 02:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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EDIT 5:55AM WED; UPDATE; I DID POST (BUT HAVE NOT VIEWED IT SINCE YESTERDAY , TUE. MAY 10, IN THE ‘Religion and Natural Disasters’ THREAD.

Mriana - 10 May 2011 09:45 AM

Welcome and feel free to not only lurk, but jump into any conversations you like.  smile  We don’t bite.  Well some might, but it’s not that hard.  smile

Ha ha! Well, judging by the other replies you seem to be the only person here whose intelligence and kindness exceeds their bigotry and ignorance. I understand people being proud of their genius level (to an ant) opposing viewpoints and hate speech that would rival a SS member at a book burning, but that does not mean I have to wallow in their mental pig sty and associate eh?  I, unlike these members, the usual suspects, the moniker I use to tag the the brown shirt haters can accommodate nearly anyone if they are civil. However your usual suspects and I will admit they are found on every forum or group, and that hate everything from blacks to whites and everything in-between if it differs from them, seem to be the only breed here. Again I thank you for the kind intro and I also you realize that you may count those guys amongst your friends, and for that I apologize saying what I think about them!

That said I haven’t had time to give the site a good look over yet. Maybe there are intelligent life forms on other areas of this forum*, and trust me I am not a girly man, I do love debate with flame, but there is a difference between productive flame and toxic flame eh? Lastly I will part with a my definition of Metaphysical/theist here so as I do not have to soil myself with actually replying to the haters here. (as a matter of personal preference I do not respond to hate speech).
The reason I ID as a Theist slash Metaphysical type is that not all Metaphysists are theists, even though men of greatness were, such as Newton’s (who believed the bible, while rejecting the Trinity, Godel (Kurt) fit the description ...but I digress. The title simply means that I beleive in God and value Metaphysics over (Logical) Positivism. 

* (Mriana, as I said according to your comment you seem to be different, even if you might not have the same beleifs etc as I. Your post was the only reason I remain. If anything your comment was a good business decision for this forum because I donate to EVERY forum I remain in for, well, around a month or at the very most three months! I am not as fragile as I may seem however if all my ideas etc are so diametrically opposed to all other members that all they cause is toxic comment I would not remain. I have not in my six year posting history ever left a forum for those reasons)

rb


Should I use the (below) for my sig? Ha ha just kidding its only a bit of comic relief posted for the benefit of the usual suspects (above);

You might be an Atheist Fundamentalist if;  # You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public “common sense”.

[ Edited: 11 May 2011 03:00 AM by RevHeadBanger ]
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I have learned silence from the talkative, tolerance from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet strangely, I am ungrateful to these teachers” ‘Gibran’

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Posted: 11 May 2011 04:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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OK, this thread has gotten off to a bad start. Kurt, it’s understandable you would want to respond in kind to the snarky and intemperate comments by Darron and George. But since you’re new around here, do be aware of our rules which discourage elevated rhetoric for its own sake, including trolling and personally abusive speech. We do have some leeway in understanding that otherwise interesting arguments can get heated and out of hand, but we’re particularly leery of newbies who come in with rhetorical guns blazing. FYI we do have people with all sorts of beliefs here, including conservative Christianity, and we welcome serious discussion and argumentation from any angle, but we don’t tolerate people who are here only to disrupt or troll.  Thanks.

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-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

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Posted: 11 May 2011 06:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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BTW, that quote by Lewis sounds dumb. Christian theology cannot fit in science since science would have a very difficult time explaining a human being walking on water or being born to a virgin mother. Regarding morality: Would Jesus agree with the killing bin Laden? You know, all that stuff with turning the other cheek…

The scientific point of view can be a part of art no problem, as is evident by the success of, for example, Sagan’s Cosmos or Star Trek.

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Posted: 11 May 2011 11:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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RevHeadBanger - 11 May 2011 02:49 AM
Mriana - 10 May 2011 09:45 AM

Welcome and feel free to not only lurk, but jump into any conversations you like.  smile  We don’t bite.  Well some might, but it’s not that hard.  smile

Ha ha! Well, judging by the other replies you seem to be the only person here whose intelligence and kindness exceeds their bigotry and ignorance. I understand people being proud of their genius level (to an ant) opposing viewpoints and hate speech that would rival a SS member at a book burning, but that does not mean I have to wallow in their mental pig sty and associate eh?  I, unlike these members, the usual suspects, the moniker I use to tag the the brown shirt haters can accommodate nearly anyone if they are civil. However your usual suspects and I will admit they are found on every forum or group, and that hate everything from blacks to whites and everything in-between if it differs from them, seem to be the only breed here. Again I thank you for the kind intro and I also you realize that you may count those guys amongst your friends, and for that I apologize saying what I think about them!

You would be surprised about the company I keep.  How can one hate everything when their own family is biracial?  I only have a problem when someone pushes their views on myself or others, then I can be just as ugly and hateful.  I also do not appreciate bigotry, racism, or other intolerant behaviour and I can get very hateful in return when I see it.  I did think you were saying you were a mataphysicist and a theist, which isn’t a big deal to me.

The reason I ID as a Theist slash Metaphysical type is that not all Metaphysists are theists, even though men of greatness were, such as Newton’s (who believed the bible, while rejecting the Trinity, Godel (Kurt) fit the description ...but I digress. The title simply means that I beleive in God and value Metaphysics over (Logical) Positivism.

This is true, not all metaphysicists are atheists.  It is not unusual for some scientists to compartmentalize science and religion.  For them, it is the only way to deal with the traditional views they were taught as a child and the scientific view they learned in college and as a scientist.  That is a personal thing and not something I wish to judge scientist for doing.  I have a psychology degree and while I am a humanist and there are many who have a psychology degree and/or psychologists (that didn’t come out quite right) who are humanists/atheists, there are also some who are liberal Xians.  When I finally left religion, of which I left because I could not believe it anymore, I came out of the Episcopal Church, which has many scientists, doctors, psychologists, and other highly educated people.  So, I understand some people try to hang on to that last thread of belief.

* (Mriana, as I said according to your comment you seem to be different, even if you might not have the same beleifs etc as I. Your post was the only reason I remain. If anything your comment was a good business decision for this forum because I donate to EVERY forum I remain in for, well, around a month or at the very most three months! I am not as fragile as I may seem however if all my ideas etc are so diametrically opposed to all other members that all they cause is toxic comment I would not remain. I have not in my six year posting history ever left a forum for those reasons)

rb

I thank you for the compliment, but I don’t do it just so people will donate and/or good business.  I give everyone a fair chance before I pass any judgment call on them, my thoughts and opinions concerning religion not withstanding.  However, as I said, even I can only tolerate so much- from both sides.  Thus, I don’t agree with the remarks made prior to your last post, but at the same time, I do agree to following the rules of the forum, meaning your siggy was not that way before I welcomed you and now it is.  That is a bit of a problem given the rules. As Doug pointed out there are rules here and while your siggy promotes a non-profit organization, it is still trying to sell something and that is religion.  I personally am not fond of that, but I cannot say you mean harm at this point.  I am also not fond of snide remarks or questions that are not honest ones from other atheists either.

Should I use the (below) for my sig? Ha ha just kidding its only a bit of comic relief posted for the benefit of the usual suspects (above);

You might be an Atheist Fundamentalist if;  # You call a view held by less than ten percent of the American public “common sense”.

I’ve already stated my personal opinion about your siggy, of which I stand by my opinion.  However, snide remarks back, esp when one is a new member is not a good start either.

[ Edited: 11 May 2011 11:08 AM by Mriana ]
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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 12 May 2011 03:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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George - 10 May 2011 01:57 PM

I think I understand the psychology behind the title of a “Metaphysicaist/thiest.” It means that one believes in God but doesn’t share the level of intelligence with other theists.  cheese

Now, now. It’s more likely that he just didn’t use spell-check.

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“All musicians are subconsciously mathematicians.”

- Thelonious Monk

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Posted: 12 May 2011 08:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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TromboneAndrew - 12 May 2011 03:58 AM
George - 10 May 2011 01:57 PM

I think I understand the psychology behind the title of a “Metaphysicaist/thiest.” It means that one believes in God but doesn’t share the level of intelligence with other theists.  cheese

Now, now. It’s more likely that he just didn’t use spell-check.

My spell check doesn’t have the word, so I took my best stab at metaphysicist.  However, theist should have been in the spell check.  So I’d cut him a little slack.  Spell check is nice, but it doesn’t have every word.

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Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 12 May 2011 08:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Actually, what I meant was that metaphysicist/theist would be a person who considers himself (or his reasons to believe in God) more sophisticated than simply a theist. I guess it was a compliment. (It had nothing to do with his misspelling of the words.)

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Posted: 12 May 2011 03:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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I have avoided responding in this thread until I saw more of what the new person posted.  However, as a scientist, I am strongly offended by the sig he’s added in red.  Sorry, Revheadbanger, but while you may criticize George and DarronS for their posts, I find yours just as obnoxious to my beliefs as you may find theirs.  In general we try to be courteous and respect others, but when one enters the forum as if it were a battlefield, one has to expect responses in kind. 

I realize that we all have a hard time seeing comments we make based on our own biases as being other than honest and without malice, however, it’s similar to a racist who tells what he considers merely a clever joke that happens to be based on what he sees as an obvious characteristic of, say, African-Americans, Latinos, Asian, etc. and can’t see why everyone else feels it is insulting.  I’m sure you don’t feel any conscious animus toward me, however, I feel your sig is insulting.

Occam

I see that you changed your sig, both in color and content so that the comment above no longer applies.  I’m happy that you saw the validity of my concern.

[ Edited: 13 May 2011 05:27 PM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 12 May 2011 04:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Christian theology can fit in science, art, morality, and the sub-Christian religious.

Just because it can “fit” those things doesn’t mean it’s true (which I assume is the implication here). Similarly, anybody can make up a theory that explains everything, but that doesn’t make it true.

The scientific point of view cannot fit any of these things, not even science itself.  C.S. Lewis

If by “fit” he means “explain”, that is not true since science does in fact have a lot to say about those things. Science can also “fit” itself via metascience or philosophy of science. However, if by “fit” he means “be consistent with”, that is also not true since science and Christian theology clearly conflict.

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“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye

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Posted: 13 May 2011 12:22 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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dougsmith - 11 May 2011 04:12 AM

OK, this thread has gotten off to a bad start. Kurt, it’s understandable you would want to respond in kind to the snarky and intemperate comments by Darron and George. But since you’re new around here, do be aware of our rules which discourage elevated rhetoric for its own sake, including trolling and personally abusive speech. We do have some leeway in understanding that otherwise interesting arguments can get heated and out of hand, but we’re particularly leery of newbies who come in with rhetorical guns blazing. FYI we do have people with all sorts of beliefs here, including conservative Christianity, and we welcome serious discussion and argumentation from any angle, but we don’t tolerate people who are here only to disrupt or troll.  Thanks.

I fully understand your comments. However, it seems that before I made one post, (other than my benign introduction)some of your members created a hostile environment. Only one member responded like I was something other than a turd in a punch bowl. Yes, my replies were a little mean however I was simply defending myself. If I must endure being insulted by your members for no reason other than being a religious/spiritual type, without the option to defend myself,  I will happily go away.

rb

[ Edited: 13 May 2011 03:38 AM by RevHeadBanger ]
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I have learned silence from the talkative, tolerance from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet strangely, I am ungrateful to these teachers” ‘Gibran’

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