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Posted: 28 June 2011 11:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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pdenorte - 28 June 2011 10:27 AM

It’s a simple matter of fact that myth, fable and fantasy are real things, with real uses.  There’s no reason at all to pretend their subject matter is other than literary (i.e. fictional) or that this in any way devalues their actual reality, utility and beauty.

I agree, but it is a different matter, when the myth (not the message) is presented as truth and “if you don’t believe in this truth” you will go to hell, where you get burned to a crisp, but never die.
Such is the case with religion, especially at an early age, when imagination is still very impressionable.

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Posted: 28 June 2011 01:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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According to the psychology classes I have taken recently at college, the data from twin studies suggests that most of people’s personalities are effected by genes by 40 to 60 percent.  So 60 to 40 percent of people’s personalities are effected by environment.  Early childhood development also plays a part.  Even if a person has a strong genetic tendency that does not mean that genes are “deterministic.”  A person still has a reaction range with that genetic tendency.  Depending on the environment, the genes could express themselves strongly or weakly somewhere within that range. 

For example; two people with the same genetic predisposition for depression are raised in different homes.  One home is abusive and this person develops severe depression.  Another is raised in a good home and never develops depression.

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Posted: 28 June 2011 07:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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brightfut - 28 June 2011 01:32 PM

Even if a person has a strong genetic tendency that does not mean that genes are “deterministic.”

Some are, others less so. All genes express in an environment. The question is the degree of the role of the environment. Does every child have the same potential to become a genius under the same environmental conditions (say, having a dedicated father like Leopold Mozart)?

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Posted: 28 June 2011 07:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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brightfut - 28 June 2011 01:32 PM

For example; two people with the same genetic predisposition for depression are raised in different homes.  One home is abusive and this person develops severe depression.  Another is raised in a good home and never develops depression.

How (and who) did they figure out the people had a genetic predisposition (and the same on top of that) for depression?

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Posted: 28 June 2011 08:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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And one more thing, brightfut:

Your attack on genetic determinism is simply ridicules since I don’t know anyone who would support such nonsense. (I am referring to genetic determinism regarding behaviour, as you’re certainly aware of the fact that the colour of your eyes, for example, is certainly determined by your genes.)

So you criticize genetic determinism—something that surely doesn’t exist—and what do you offer instead? A parental determinism. Yes, we have all heard of thousands of studies similar to your loving home/depression example, but the truth is that all those studies are either a result of unconscious bias or the people simply fudging the numbers. If you’re aware of any study supporting a long-term influence of parents on their kids behaviour, I would be happy to hear about it.

[ Edited: 29 June 2011 06:40 AM by George ]
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Posted: 28 June 2011 10:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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George - 09 June 2011 09:02 AM

Hi Gary,

I wouldn’t worry about it. Parents have no influence on how their kids turn out.

Please show your data. That is a very strong statement. I can think of a number of ways parents can have a LOT of influence on ‘how their kids turn out’.
If you truly believe this, why do you even bother to parent? Why do you bother to teach your children anything? Why do you bother to model behavior or educate your children? By ‘your’, I mean YOU George.

[ Edited: 28 June 2011 10:38 PM by asanta ]
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Posted: 28 June 2011 11:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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George,
I will stipulate that parenting is no guarantee of what an individual will eventually become.

But even in the wild, it is obvious that parenting is an important factor in the development of survival skills. A tiger teaches her offspring how to hunt after they are weaned. If she did not they would not last a week on their own.
Where humans are concerned, it is well proven that exposure to the habits and lifestyle of the parents has a great influence on their later development. Reading, music, explaining how things work, teaching acceptable behavior, all are important factors in the “early” development of a child.
Again, have you seen the movie Nell? It was based on a true story of Nell Kellty. Although Nell is by no means helpless, she is totally unprepared for a “civilized” environment. It is an excellent movie, well worth watching.
http://movie-gazette.com/323/nell

[ Edited: 28 June 2011 11:21 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 29 June 2011 06:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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asanta - 28 June 2011 10:36 PM

Please show your data.

Okay, after you show me the data that God doesn’t exist.  grin

I take care of my kids because they need my help to survive and because parenting is fun.

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Posted: 29 June 2011 06:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Write4U - 28 June 2011 11:15 PM

Where humans are concerned, it is well proven that exposure to the habits and lifestyle of the parents has a great influence on their later development. Reading, music, explaining how things work, teaching acceptable behavior, all are important factors in the “early” development of a child.

No, according to adoption studies it is well proven that parents have no long-term influence on the behaviour on their kids. I guess we can keep playing this verbal ping-pong forever.

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Posted: 29 June 2011 06:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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George - 29 June 2011 06:38 AM
Write4U - 28 June 2011 11:15 PM

Where humans are concerned, it is well proven that exposure to the habits and lifestyle of the parents has a great influence on their later development. Reading, music, explaining how things work, teaching acceptable behavior, all are important factors in the “early” development of a child.

No, according to adoption studies it is well proven that parents have no long-term influence on the behaviour on their kids. I guess we can keep playing this verbal ping-pong forever.

As you know, what’s proven by adoption studies is that (apart from genetics) parents have no influence on the personalities of their kids, which is not the same as the kids’ behavior. “Behavior” is too all-encompassing a term.

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Posted: 29 June 2011 06:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Well, behaviour is an action based on one’s personality. Dogs with violent personalities will behave violently.

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Posted: 29 June 2011 07:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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George - 29 June 2011 06:59 AM

Well, behaviour is an action based on one’s personality. Dogs with violent personalities will behave violently.

Sure, but although behavior is influenced by personality, personality alone doesn’t determine behavior. Environment also plays a part, and parents are part of that environment.

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Posted: 29 June 2011 07:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Adoption studies is not evidence.  Many of the kids who are adopted have their own set of issues sometimes, esp if they have been in the system for a while, which need therapy.  Parents of their own natural born children have a LOT of influence on their children.

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Posted: 29 June 2011 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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dougsmith - 29 June 2011 07:05 AM
George - 29 June 2011 06:59 AM

Well, behaviour is an action based on one’s personality. Dogs with violent personalities will behave violently.

Sure, but although behavior is influenced by personality, personality alone doesn’t determine behavior. Environment also plays a part, and parents are part of that environment.

Parents may be a part of the environment, but their long-term influence on their kids’ behaviour in practically nonexistent. Violent computer games, for example, are also a part of the environment of the children, but according to the research it seems the games have no influence on the behaviour of the kids.

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Posted: 29 June 2011 07:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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George - 29 June 2011 06:59 AM

Well, behaviour is an action based on one’s personality. Dogs with violent personalities will behave violently.

Tell that to a pitbull who’s had a lot of love since he was born.  Pitbulls are not naturally violent.  What makes them that way is how humans treat them.

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