Francisco Ayala declares that the religious need a god for purpose and to get over dread. We are our own purposes .One should see a counselor to get over any dread. Our transient purposes and human love and no future state suffice. One needs no ultimate purpose and divine love and no one can show there is a future state. Contrary to the misogynist ,Paul , we are not the property of any god and would be its equal morally . The world is not loveless without a god. :!: :wink: :idea:
We spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to enjoy life and be good without religion. That’s a waste of precious time as far as I’m concerned. Boy would I ever like to have back the time I spent in church, the time I spent studying religion, the time I lost.
Now I think we need to raise our children to live good productive lives, to care for their fellow humans and to love life where ever they are living it. And we need to do the same for ourselves when our kids are grown. We need to teach our kids that life is important and their time here is golden.
We need to forget about eupaxsophy, to stop spending our energies explaining ourselves when its clear that we need to be good, it’s the best way to live a happy life. If we (humanity) didn’t have the fear of god in us we could contend with our emotions and deal with our mistakes without guilt. If we were taught to live to be happy with our family, our friends our work/hobbies, while helping others as far as we are able we would do it.
Fortunately , many people don’‘t let their god influence them . They go about their lives as we do ours .If only others who think that God helps those who help themselves knew that they do so without His help.
[quote author=“skeptic griggsy”]Fortunately , many people don’‘t let their god influence them . They go about their lives as we do ours .If only others who think that God helps those who help themselves knew that they do so without His help.
That’s what I don’t get. If we want anything to change, we humans have to do it ourselves. What is the purpose of God? As far as I can tell, it is a psychological benefit of some sort for those who are afraid to stand on their own two feet. They some how need the idea that someone is with them giving them strength and courage to do whatever it is they need to do, yet this very same belief causes them anger if someone says anything negative about their invisible friend or their dogma. Sometimes, at least in past history, to the point of violence. Then they go and blame God for what happened- like say 9/11. God didn’t do it and had nothing to do with it Humans did it and it is humans that need to work towards peace so that it doesn’t happen again.
A psychological crutch is the only thing I can deduce for such beliefs. My question is, since we went to the moon and back again, found no deity up in space, where they think this anthropomorphic god lives? It makes no sense at all, esp when a non-believer, such as myself, sees such ideas as a reincarnation of Zeus, but I don’t dare tell them that, because they would just start climbing the walls with insanity- esp those who are Fundamentalist.
There was a time during recorded history when religion served a purpose. Humans were flailing about trying to understand what the place they found themselves in was like. Religious belief provided plausible explanations until about the twentieth century. Then the great scientific discoveries began. I’ve lived long enough to be able to recall when we thought the size of the universe enveloped perhaps a hundred or so galaxies each containing a million or so stars. Now we know that one galaxy ours, contains more stars than we thought the entire universe contained in the 1930’s
Religion provided a basis for the acquisition of power over others and of course it still does that. If the Muslim faith didn’t give the Saudi Kings their power base or the Iranian theocracy its power base would it last long in those countries.
I don’t think so.
The Christian religion gives men power over other men and women. It is especially true of the fundamentalist brands - think of the funds that were at Ted Haggards disposal until he was outed by his male prostitute lover.
I know, it’s unreal and the thing is, I don’t think Haggard gave any of the money back to the community. The Bakkers didn’t. IMHO, most televangelists and writers like LaHaye are indevouring on a get rich quick scheme and those who are gullible or Fundamentalist, fall for it as they give away all their hard earned money to something that doesn’t really help the community or anyone else. Meanwhile, these same people trying to get rich quick are hypocrits who bash gays or other groups of people and then turn around and sleep with them. While the people they preach to about being anti-this or that, get up in arms when you say that science shows it’s genetic or what have you and it is not something bad, evil, demonic, or sinful. It’s unreal.
However, I have a friend who is Church of Christ and she agrees with me that there will be NO second coming or Armageddon and the real battle will be between the Evangelical/Fundamenalist v. everyone else in the world. I have to admit, she is real and progressively thinking woman, who is not gullible. We do have our disagreements though and agree to disagree, but her mind is not lost to a lot of dogma. She has actually agreed with me when I’ve gone on a dogma rant because someone else brought it up and truly believes it. One being the Second Coming. She supported me on that too.
So, not all Christians are alike, which is a good thing, because we’d be in trouble if they were.
:wink: How true the foregoing comments , e verybody ! I find it good that Jim Wallis is trying to get evangelicals to go democratic but I want us non-theists to have our say .Man, how some think we secular progressives are trying to lord it over everyone else[Bill O’Reilly] when we are just finally assering ourselves.Those people are like the old time segragationists of my part of the nation : they cannot fathom that others can have a say ,taking our say as taking over . :twisted: