2 of 3
2
Rick Perlstein - Is There a Republican War on History?
Posted: 26 June 2011 01:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  32
Joined  2010-01-03

Wal-Mart just cornered the ‘market’ in Namibia for just under a billion U.S. dollars—a few days ago. So what say ye, Ms. Bachmann, what of ‘big business’? I suppose, LOL. Change the subject back to what is…

 Signature 

We have one choice, either we are going to die on a living planet or we are going to try to live on a dead one.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 26 June 2011 02:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  32
Joined  2010-01-03
neolib=plndr - 25 June 2011 09:36 AM

...sure it is, why do you think the planet is melting today? This is why we are going through everything that we are going through—it is plunder which has been happening for hundreds of years by the banking institutions which btw brought us the institution of slavery and the industrial revolution that followed, etc. Pose for a moment that across the land Governors and legislators are attacking the sovereignty of Labor at the same time not one Governor or legislator can legally speak of safety issues when discussing nuclear power plants, they can’t in the least say a word.
So why don’t we change the subject with the Ms. Bachmanns of the world instead of being in awe of the stupidity by which they speak; all life forms on planet Earth are in decline and if you undermine the sovereignty of Labor(i.e. indigenous peoples, unions etc.) the matter will only be exacerbated—the planet will only continue to be in decline…which will lead to massive genocide…for nothing!
  This is why I say, plunder is groundless.

 Signature 

We have one choice, either we are going to die on a living planet or we are going to try to live on a dead one.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 26 June 2011 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  8
Joined  2011-06-20

@ pdenorte:

as a previous poster noted, your comments were short on examples.  while i know revisionism can come from the right or left, i am certain that it’s much more common from the right. two topics come immediately to mind:  evolution and the role of religion in the founding of the country.  i’ve heard a lot of lies about darwin from the right, but can’t recall any from the left. (and i’ve read a lot about evolution and darwin, so i’m pretty familiar with the subject.)  likewise, i’ve heard lots of rightwingers spout nonsense about the “christian nation” claim concerning the founding of our government. lots of conservatives blubber on and on, with great conviction, about the judeo-christian foundations of our laws (as if no other ancient cultures had prohibitions against murder and theft, etc.) and the beliefs of the founders.  i’ve never heard one admit anything about the deist beliefs of many founders or the lack of any mention of god or christ in the constitution (or the crystal-clear wording of the treaty of tripoli, which states that the u.s. is not an officially christian nation).  progressives, on the other hand, usually admit that many founders were christians while making their claims about the secular nature of the constitution.  they don’t ignore or deny the aspects of history that don’t support their argument; conservatives often do.  also, while on the topic of religion, i have heard several conservatives cite falsified accounts of death-bed conversions by freethinkers.  they don’t have any credible evidence to support their claim—and there’s usually plenty to refute it—but they repeat it nontheless.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 26 June 2011 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  85
Joined  2009-05-28

It’s a good thing liberals don’t believe in God. Even as it is, they have themselves hopelessly confused with Him. Liberalism makes politics serve the functions of religion with most of the worst and few of the best features of both.
  Actually, conservatism is a more natural match with skepticism and the scientific outlook by far than liberalism.  The capitalist economic system is an empirical, trial and error, survival of the fittest system with all kinds of opportunities for interplay and hybridization of ideas at all levels (technological, business, legal). The American republic is an ad hoc and compromise arrangement with provision to experiment AND REJECT new ideas at the local and state level.
  Liberalism is faith and ideology, often with tragic, insane, barbaric, or loathsome results. (Communism, carbon dioxide defined as a regulatable pollutant, women in combat, and homosexual legitimization are respective examples.) “We can’t turn back the clock,” is an all too common liberal rallying cry – meaning we can’t correct our mistakes. That should raise a red flag – poor choice of metaphors . What was that about self-correcting?
  Marxism. All the lies, back stabbing, betrayal, and corruption liberals, American academic liberals (just to concentrate on one of the most petty aspects of the tragedy) practiced and still practice for that dream! Liberals have never mustered the class or the character to apologize, or even to be embarrassed, let alone ashamed, of their role in the once great revolution and instrument of death, terror and grinding poverty.
  Just to mention one elephant in the living room. Liberals fiercely oppose research (never mind the findings they don’t like) that might challenge convenient dogmas about sex (“gender” in newspeak.  I never thought I would live to see the day a liberal didn’t want to say “sex.”) roles and characteristics, and God forbid (pardon my language) anything at all about biology or heredity as applied to homosexuality. We aren’t supposed to ask and we aren’t supposed to know, just believe. Creationists and 17th century popes have nothing on libs. They condone suppression of excavation and examination of early American skeletal remains because of “sensitivity” to the religious – RELIGIOUS – beliefs of Indians (“native Americans” in newspeak. I was born in this country and that is all it takes to make me native American too. Damn any mealy mouthed liberal who says no.)
  By the way, can some liberal give me the scientific reason why in 1939, 40, and 41 when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had a nonagression pact in effect, Hitler was acceptable to liberals but the instant he attacked the Soviet Union he was then and ever after, supreme, archetypal evil? I’ve just always been curious.
  Anyhow, obviously I could go on, but liberalism is pathological conceit. All liberal ideas are superior to everything ever thought or done in all ages before, be they phrased or structured as religion, custom, law, whatever, and liberals have a moral obligation to shove their ideas down the throats of the rest of us contemptible idiots and fools. For your information, most new ideas are bad ideas. All ideas have unforeseen and unintended consequences. Society weeds out the new ideas or adjusts to them with more innovations which in turn have unforeseen consequences that need accommodation. Beyond a certain rate of introduction, these processes cannot keep up and society becomes more and more dysfunctional, self contradictory, unjust, inefficient, unsatisfying, evil, stupid, and corrupt. If you live in the best civilization in history, you better have a damned good reason before you tamper with it. The conceit of liberals is not among those damned good reasons.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 26 June 2011 08:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6042
Joined  2009-02-26

If you see no replies to that rant, don’t blame it on liberal cowardice. Perhaps many here are in gereral agreement, though in a slightly more objectively balanced way….. cheese

 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 26 June 2011 10:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2679
Joined  2011-04-24
rg21 - 26 June 2011 07:59 PM

It’s a good thing liberals don’t believe in God. Even as it is, they have themselves hopelessly confused with Him. Liberalism makes politics serve the functions of religion with most of the worst and few of the best features of both.
  Actually, conservatism is a more natural match with skepticism and the scientific outlook by far than liberalism.  The capitalist economic system is an empirical, trial and error, survival of the fittest system with all kinds of opportunities for interplay and hybridization of ideas at all levels (technological, business, legal). The American republic is an ad hoc and compromise arrangement with provision to experiment AND REJECT new ideas at the local and state level.
  Liberalism is faith and ideology, often with tragic, insane, barbaric, or loathsome results. (Communism, carbon dioxide defined as a regulatable pollutant, women in combat, and homosexual legitimization are respective examples.) “We can’t turn back the clock,” is an all too common liberal rallying cry – meaning we can’t correct our mistakes. That should raise a red flag – poor choice of metaphors . What was that about self-correcting?
  Marxism. All the lies, back stabbing, betrayal, and corruption liberals, American academic liberals (just to concentrate on one of the most petty aspects of the tragedy) practiced and still practice for that dream! Liberals have never mustered the class or the character to apologize, or even to be embarrassed, let alone ashamed, of their role in the once great revolution and instrument of death, terror and grinding poverty.
  Just to mention one elephant in the living room. Liberals fiercely oppose research (never mind the findings they don’t like) that might challenge convenient dogmas about sex (“gender” in newspeak.  I never thought I would live to see the day a liberal didn’t want to say “sex.”) roles and characteristics, and God forbid (pardon my language) anything at all about biology or heredity as applied to homosexuality. We aren’t supposed to ask and we aren’t supposed to know, just believe. Creationists and 17th century popes have nothing on libs. They condone suppression of excavation and examination of early American skeletal remains because of “sensitivity” to the religious – RELIGIOUS – beliefs of Indians (“native Americans” in newspeak. I was born in this country and that is all it takes to make me native American too. Damn any mealy mouthed liberal who says no.)
  By the way, can some liberal give me the scientific reason why in 1939, 40, and 41 when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had a nonagression pact in effect, Hitler was acceptable to liberals but the instant he attacked the Soviet Union he was then and ever after, supreme, archetypal evil? I’ve just always been curious.
  Anyhow, obviously I could go on, but liberalism is pathological conceit. All liberal ideas are superior to everything ever thought or done in all ages before, be they phrased or structured as religion, custom, law, whatever, and liberals have a moral obligation to shove their ideas down the throats of the rest of us contemptible idiots and fools. For your information, most new ideas are bad ideas. All ideas have unforeseen and unintended consequences. Society weeds out the new ideas or adjusts to them with more innovations which in turn have unforeseen consequences that need accommodation. Beyond a certain rate of introduction, these processes cannot keep up and society becomes more and more dysfunctional, self contradictory, unjust, inefficient, unsatisfying, evil, stupid, and corrupt. If you live in the best civilization in history, you better have a damned good reason before you tamper with it. The conceit of liberals is not among those damned good reasons.

I assume no liberals are invited to your July 4th party;I’m not sure that conservatism is more in tune with the scientific method,and skepticism than liberalism is.Liberalism has a view of rationality in general that conservatism lacks I think,not that liberalism is right all the time,it isn’t,it’s not even right most of the time.Things that are tried and true are good if they work,but respecting them just for the sake of it is not rational.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 June 2011 06:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3121
Joined  2008-04-07

If you live in the best civilization in history, you better have a damned good reason before you tamper with it. The conceit of liberals is not among those damned good reasons.

Yeah, like why bother with suffrage, civil rights, and all that crap.  tongue rolleye

 Signature 

Turn off Fox News - Bad News For America
(Atheists are myth understood)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 June 2011 07:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  85
Joined  2009-05-28

Because those were damned good ideas. I know this will be a terrible, terrible shock, but it is a non sequitur to say therefore all yours are too.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 June 2011 08:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3121
Joined  2008-04-07
rg21 - 27 June 2011 07:08 AM

Because those were damned good ideas. I know this will be a terrible, terrible shock, but it is a non sequitur to say therefore all yours are too.

Yep, damned good ideas. And there are lots more. Your initial statement, rg21, seemed to lack any willingness to change. Apparently that’s not the case. Who said liberal ideas were any different from others’ ideas?? Aren’t you just being defensive (and polarized) for no good reason?

 Signature 

Turn off Fox News - Bad News For America
(Atheists are myth understood)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 June 2011 05:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1293
Joined  2009-10-21

It was great to hear from a historian that you can adhere to proper historical methodology and still tell a good story. The right wingers mentioned have figured out the power of telling a good story, they shouldn’t be left to be the only story tellers. Everyone I know that has done the research to refute either God or bad history has found a much more interesting story.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 June 2011 07:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  85
Joined  2009-05-28

Liberalism is the death wish of Western Civilization. When I read liberal history, all I see is hate propaganda and victimology. Like everyone else, most of what I believe rests on who I think I can trust. I certainly don’t trust liberals. I don’t know of anything anywhere on what you call the right wing that in any way resembles the contempt for truth that is prominent in Marxism and left wing radicalism which despises it as bourgeois weakness and praises dishonesty as a virtue. Even in this program the simplistic, propagandistic, context-distorted version of the Constitutional 3/5 compromise is repeated or at least obviously implied. My stereotype of conservatives doesn’t begin with talk show hosts the way yours does, but I will give Rush Limbaugh credit for a marvelous instinctive grasp of inverse, converse, and contrapositive. And he uses it masterfully to give well deserved pokes to many liberal deceptions and hypocrisies. The news media and the universities are outrageously biased and viciously hostile to dissent, not matter how intellectually sound or personally dignified. The contortions the media went through to blame the right for the shootings of President Kennedy and Congresswoman Giffords are great monuments of mendacity. The 60’s Weathermen, including Obama friend Ayers planned genocide of the entire white race and have never renounced this. (I know. I was there.) But we hear nothing of that. Liberal fanatics have the same delusion of special relationship to THE TRUTH that religious fanatics do; the same intolerance, the same conviction that if science doesn’t ratify their dogmas, it ain’t science, the same elevation of the socially mandatory and the socially unacceptable (political correctness) over data.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 27 June 2011 09:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
Jr. Member
RankRank
Total Posts:  32
Joined  2010-01-03
rg21 - 26 June 2011 07:59 PM

It’s a good thing liberals don’t believe in God. Even as it is, they have themselves hopelessly confused with Him. Liberalism makes politics serve the functions of religion with most of the worst and few of the best features of both.
  Actually, conservatism is a more natural match with skepticism and the scientific outlook by far than liberalism.  The capitalist economic system is an empirical, trial and error, survival of the fittest system with all kinds of opportunities for interplay and hybridization of ideas at all levels (technological, business, legal). The American republic is an ad hoc and compromise arrangement with provision to experiment AND REJECT new ideas at the local and state level.
  Liberalism is faith and ideology, often with tragic, insane, barbaric, or loathsome results. (Communism, carbon dioxide defined as a regulatable pollutant, women in combat, and homosexual legitimization are respective examples.) “We can’t turn back the clock,” is an all too common liberal rallying cry – meaning we can’t correct our mistakes. That should raise a red flag – poor choice of metaphors . What was that about self-correcting?
  Marxism. All the lies, back stabbing, betrayal, and corruption liberals, American academic liberals (just to concentrate on one of the most petty aspects of the tragedy) practiced and still practice for that dream! Liberals have never mustered the class or the character to apologize, or even to be embarrassed, let alone ashamed, of their role in the once great revolution and instrument of death, terror and grinding poverty.
  Just to mention one elephant in the living room. Liberals fiercely oppose research (never mind the findings they don’t like) that might challenge convenient dogmas about sex (“gender” in newspeak.  I never thought I would live to see the day a liberal didn’t want to say “sex.”) roles and characteristics, and God forbid (pardon my language) anything at all about biology or heredity as applied to homosexuality. We aren’t supposed to ask and we aren’t supposed to know, just believe. Creationists and 17th century popes have nothing on libs. They condone suppression of excavation and examination of early American skeletal remains because of “sensitivity” to the religious – RELIGIOUS – beliefs of Indians (“native Americans” in newspeak. I was born in this country and that is all it takes to make me native American too. Damn any mealy mouthed liberal who says no.)
  By the way, can some liberal give me the scientific reason why in 1939, 40, and 41 when Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union had a nonagression pact in effect, Hitler was acceptable to liberals but the instant he attacked the Soviet Union he was then and ever after, supreme, archetypal evil? I’ve just always been curious.
  Anyhow, obviously I could go on, but liberalism is pathological conceit. All liberal ideas are superior to everything ever thought or done in all ages before, be they phrased or structured as religion, custom, law, whatever, and liberals have a moral obligation to shove their ideas down the throats of the rest of us contemptible idiots and fools. For your information, most new ideas are bad ideas. All ideas have unforeseen and unintended consequences. Society weeds out the new ideas or adjusts to them with more innovations which in turn have unforeseen consequences that need accommodation. Beyond a certain rate of introduction, these processes cannot keep up and society becomes more and more dysfunctional, self contradictory, unjust, inefficient, unsatisfying, evil, stupid, and corrupt. If you live in the best civilization in history, you better have a damned good reason before you tamper with it. The conceit of liberals is not among those damned good reasons.

  ...you seem to be a bit of a sophist. I actually spoke w/ one this weekend—he went ranting on about ObamaCare and all of that and he used ad hominem just as you are. It seems sophism is incomplete w/out ad hominem. This person I spoke to usually won arguments w/ ‘libs’ and was accustomed to yelling folks down, I was told later. The moment I mentioned sophist, well we were all ‘friends’ after that.
  “...liberalism is pathological conceit”, what? Personally, I think that you are outright lying and you know it. And we don’t ‘live in the best civilization in history’, that is ridiculous not even if one considers that the planet is melting because of it. I see you trying to pose liberalism and neo-liberalism as two sides of the same coin or it’s ‘just a matter of opinion’ but that is a lie. Although you may not call your stance neo-liberal it is just that.
  “...society becomes more and more dysfunctional, self contradictory, unjust, inefficient, unsatisfying, evil, stupid, and corrupt”, what, WTF! I think you guys are serious about your plunder but it is all groundless…the planet is being destroyed for nothing, nothing at all and your speech is out to exacerbate the problem, thanks dude!

 Signature 

We have one choice, either we are going to die on a living planet or we are going to try to live on a dead one.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 June 2011 01:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3121
Joined  2008-04-07
rg21 - 27 June 2011 07:36 PM

Liberalism is the death wish of Western Civilization. When I read liberal history, all I see is hate propaganda and victimology. Like everyone else, most of what I believe rests on who I think I can trust. I certainly don’t trust liberals. I don’t know of anything anywhere on what you call the right wing that in any way resembles the contempt for truth that is prominent in Marxism and left wing radicalism which despises it as bourgeois weakness and praises dishonesty as a virtue. Even in this program the simplistic, propagandistic, context-distorted version of the Constitutional 3/5 compromise is repeated or at least obviously implied. My stereotype of conservatives doesn’t begin with talk show hosts the way yours does, but I will give Rush Limbaugh credit for a marvelous instinctive grasp of inverse, converse, and contrapositive. And he uses it masterfully to give well deserved pokes to many liberal deceptions and hypocrisies. The news media and the universities are outrageously biased and viciously hostile to dissent, not matter how intellectually sound or personally dignified. The contortions the media went through to blame the right for the shootings of President Kennedy and Congresswoman Giffords are great monuments of mendacity. The 60’s Weathermen, including Obama friend Ayers planned genocide of the entire white race and have never renounced this. (I know. I was there.) But we hear nothing of that. Liberal fanatics have the same delusion of special relationship to THE TRUTH that religious fanatics do; the same intolerance, the same conviction that if science doesn’t ratify their dogmas, it ain’t science, the same elevation of the socially mandatory and the socially unacceptable (political correctness) over data.

What to say?  shut eye

 Signature 

Turn off Fox News - Bad News For America
(Atheists are myth understood)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 June 2011 03:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
Jr. Member
RankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  85
Joined  2009-05-28

You are accusing me of ad hominem?! Most of what you say makes no sense at all to me. I don’t see you addressing any issue or statement except one - the greatest civilization. The rest is all ad hominem.  OK. you name the best civilization where there was more prosperity, more liberty, more personal opportunity, more equality of opportunity, better health, more productivity, more leisure, more production and enjoyment of art and culture. Did I lie about Communism or about liberal adoration and complicity with the crimes of Communism? Do I lie about press and academic bias? Is it untrue that Western liberals hate and wish to destroy and work to destroy their own civilization - death wish? For obvious reasons of convenience I am using the term liberal in the conventional contemporary sense as apparently are the host and guest on this episode.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 28 June 2011 04:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1293
Joined  2009-10-21

rg21, are you familiar with the first encyclopedias? Encyclopedie

This is what he was talking about when he said that if you don’t have liberals, you don’t have universities. Rather than continuing to allow the church to dispense knowledge, a few people decided to sit down and chronicle everything they knew at the time, knowing that others would follow and correct them as new knowledge was gained.

Since one of the few facts you have raised is the 3/5 counting of slaves, could you expand on what you found problematic about that?

Profile
 
 
   
2 of 3
2