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Thread from conservative forum discussing vaccination.
Posted: 22 June 2011 08:52 PM   [ Ignore ]
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this is causing me drama, I didn’t know it was visible to the outside world

[ Edited: 17 August 2012 08:40 AM by bouf ]
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Posted: 22 June 2011 08:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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this is causing me drama, I didn’t know it was visible to the outside world

[ Edited: 17 August 2012 08:40 AM by bouf ]
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Posted: 22 June 2011 08:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Now we can all sit here and spot logical fallacies, but the truth is, that more than 1/2 of the people who voted in the poll at the top of this facebook thread said they would not vaccinate their kids.

In a group like this, how to I reach out to these people, to try to help them begin to change their mind?

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Posted: 22 June 2011 11:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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bouf - 22 June 2011 08:54 PM

Now we can all sit here and spot logical fallacies, but the truth is, that more than 1/2 of the people who voted in the poll at the top of this facebook thread said they would not vaccinate their kids.

In a group like this, how to I reach out to these people, to try to help them begin to change their mind?

Might not be possible to change many of their minds,the most serious of them probably are suspiscious of medical science to begin with;any attempt to show them they are wrong will piss them off more.The more rational ones will likely be open to learning about it on their own.

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Posted: 23 June 2011 04:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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IIRC it’s often very liberal areas that are anti-vaccination, as well.

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Posted: 23 June 2011 05:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I wrote a piece a while back that looked at the underpinnings of anti-vax sentiment. The basic conclusion was that since it was driven by irrational fears, not logic, the corrective would likely be as well.  In other words, when people start becoming more afraid of diseases again (read: dead babies) then the tide will start to turn. 

http://www.skepticnorth.com/2010/11/vaccination-the-anatomy-of-fear-incl-soundtrack/

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Posted: 23 June 2011 03:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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The theory goes, debating isn’t for the people involved, but for the people watching. You may change minds, you just wouldn’t know it.

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Posted: 23 June 2011 07:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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In other words, when people start becoming more afraid of diseases again (read: dead babies) then the tide will start to turn.

Trouble is, these same people will find something else to blame. Government/“BIG” Pharma conspiracies for example.

I’m not saying this is rational, it’s just there.

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Posted: 24 June 2011 12:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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this is causing me drama, I didn’t know it was visible to the outside world

[ Edited: 17 August 2012 08:40 AM by bouf ]
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Posted: 24 June 2011 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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I’d love constructive criticism for my posts. It looks like this thread is shut down, but for the future…

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Posted: 24 June 2011 12:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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bouf - 24 June 2011 12:15 PM

I’d love constructive criticism for my posts. It looks like this thread is shut down, but for the future…


Don’t have much to say other than I believe most people would find Kyra (and several others) to be a ditz. Wakefield is a fraud who produced mass hysteria for his own interests.

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Posted: 24 June 2011 11:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Wakefield is a fraud who produced mass hysteria for his own interests.

To say nothing of the interests he was taking money from when he produced a “study” that was so shoddy in it’s methodology and so-called controls that it was absolutely shredded on peer review. There have been several articles on him in Skeptic and The Skeptical Inquirer.

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Posted: 26 June 2011 08:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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In 2009, the story of cheerleader Desiree Jennings who developed a neurological condition from the swine flu vaccine was well reported in the media, as usual, the media failed to follow up on it. The story mentioned that it was dystonia, for which there is no cure, and only symptomatic treatments. Experts felt that it was more likely to be a psychogenic (caused by emotional or mental conflict), rather than dystonia, upon viewing the video. Her condition seemed to get much worse when she was questioned about her condition. It doesn’t mean that she was doing it voluntarily, but it was extremely implausible that this condition was caused by the vaccine.
Due to “chelation” therapy, she claims to now have a full recovery from dystonia. Dystonia is caused by brain damage, the brain does not repair itself, if she is cured now, she never had dystonia. This case has just way too many unanswered questions and holes in the official story. No one should take this story into account when making a decision on vaccination.

This story was debunked by several neurologists, including Steven Novella, who posted about it on both his science based medicine and Neurologica blogs. Her symptoms fit no logical ‘symptoms’ for any kind of brain damage. They suspect psychological hysteria.

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Posted: 26 June 2011 10:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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new comment from new comer.

Personally, I think it’s up to the pro-vaccine people to prove the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. Did you know that, as far as I can dig up, safety testing on the inter-relationship of vaccines has never been done? The vaccines on the schedule have never been tested together. Nor has safety of all of the different ingredients and their combined effects ever been really studied. I’m sorry, but if you’re going to say that I should inject my naturally healthy, toxin-free, drug-free child with a cocktail of chemicals (most of which are proven toxins and have regulations on them), then it is up to YOU to prove that this is safe, necessary, and beneficial. This has not been proven to my satisfaction. My children are not lab rats. I realize that correlation does not prove causality, but there are way too many stories of real people who suffered real harm for me to ignore. Until those issues are put to rest I will keep my children healthy without the use of harmful injected chemicals that MIGHT help them not get sick but also MIGHT make them disabled for life.

Fact: my state has the lowest immunization rate in the US. This info can be found on the CDC website. My state also has one of the least cases of childhood diseases found in the US.This info can also be found on the CDC site. There was recently a pertussis epidemic in an elementary school in NY. Every sick child had been vaccinated for pertussis. Even pro-vaccine Docs are admitting that the current pertussis vax is becoming ineffective. An outbreak of smallpox (which doesn’t really exist in the US anymore) was investigated and reported as BEING CAUSED by a live virus vaccine. I have the PDF file of the report from the CDC. I could go on and on, not only with vaccine failures, but harm done because of them. There are way too many variables and loose ends and unpredictable outcomes for me to feel comfortable injecting my kids. Until these things are thoroughly researched and dealt with, I have determined that the risks are far greater than raising my kids with a naturally healthy immune system. If this changes in the future, I will gladly re-evaluate my decision.

So my fellow skeptics,
go

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Posted: 27 June 2011 01:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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bouf - 26 June 2011 10:13 PM

new comment from new comer.

Personally, I think it’s up to the pro-vaccine people to prove the safety and efficacy of the vaccines. Did you know that, as far as I can dig up, safety testing on the inter-relationship of vaccines has never been done? The vaccines on the schedule have never been tested together. Nor has safety of all of the different ingredients and their combined effects ever been really studied. I’m sorry, but if you’re going to say that I should inject my naturally healthy, toxin-free, drug-free child with a cocktail of chemicals (most of which are proven toxins and have regulations on them), then it is up to YOU to prove that this is safe, necessary, and beneficial. This has not been proven to my satisfaction. My children are not lab rats. I realize that correlation does not prove causality, but there are way too many stories of real people who suffered real harm for me to ignore. Until those issues are put to rest I will keep my children healthy without the use of harmful injected chemicals that MIGHT help them not get sick but also MIGHT make them disabled for life.

This person obviously has no training or classes in biology or chemistry. The vaccine schedule was not put together willy-nilly with no thought. It is a schedule put together in order to provide the best protection for the child and to make sure the vaccines do not interfere with each other. WHAT toxins in the vaccines? Does this idiot not realize that EVERYTHING is made of ‘chemicals’? Does this idiot not realize that the diseases the vaccines prevent killed/maimed/disabled millions upon millions of children pre-vaccine, and still kill thousands every year in the third world?

Fact: my state has the lowest immunization rate in the US. This info can be found on the CDC website. My state also has one of the least cases of childhood diseases found in the US.This info can also be found on the CDC site. There was recently a pertussis epidemic in an elementary school in NY. Every sick child had been vaccinated for pertussis. Even pro-vaccine Docs are admitting that the current pertussis vax is becoming ineffective. An outbreak of smallpox (which doesn’t really exist in the US anymore) was investigated and reported as BEING CAUSED by a live virus vaccine. I have the PDF file of the report from the CDC. I could go on and on, not only with vaccine failures, but harm done because of them. There are way too many variables and loose ends and unpredictable outcomes for me to feel comfortable injecting my kids. Until these things are thoroughly researched and dealt with, I have determined that the risks are far greater than raising my kids with a naturally healthy immune system. If this changes in the future, I will gladly re-evaluate my decision.

If in fact, she lives in the least vaccinated state, rather than proudly crowing, I would be ducking, hoping that when the bomb explodes, I don’t get hit by the shrapnel. As for the NY outbreak, the children were vaccinated in order to contain the outbreak, they were NOT previously protected. S/he is twisting the story (big surprise). Various vaccines have various levels of efficiency. All this means is that for the somewhat less effective vaccine, you need to have a higher percentage of the population vaccinated to create an effective herd immunity. It does NOT mean it is no good.


So my fellow skeptics,
go

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Posted: 27 June 2011 04:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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In principle I like the approach of vaccinations.  Rather than trying to kill the bugs with mycins and the like, a vaccination actually builds the body’s own defenses. IMO a much smarter way than trying to kill em, which eventually leads to bacteria which are immune.
It’s better to have a body that’s immune, than a bug that’s immune.

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