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Secular Opinions on Transhumanism
Posted: 08 July 2011 02:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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traveler - 08 July 2011 01:55 PM

The history of eugenics is deplorable because it sought to subtract.

I’m advocating gene selective modification. smile

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Posted: 08 July 2011 02:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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QuantumFrost - 08 July 2011 01:59 PM

It is never going to be inherently “Bad” to be smart

Never? But I already told you that it may already in fact be the intelligence that is responsible for below the replament numbers. It doesn’t get much worse than this-except, of course, for that Yucatan comet 70 million years ago. wink

[ Edited: 08 July 2011 02:15 PM by George ]
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Posted: 08 July 2011 02:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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QuantumFrost - 08 July 2011 01:59 PM

Which is why genetic manipulation could stimulate a change in that trend. It is never going to be inherently “Bad” to be smart, or inherently “Dumb” to procreate more often than formulate. To strike a balance would not only dissolve any qualms over population figures, but it would also integrate greater reasoning into the vast current gene pool.

Artificial Selection, through genetic manipulation.

I have posted the past few posts from my iPhone and I now realize (now that I am back at my computer) that I didn’t fully answer your comments.

Look, to “strike a balance” in eugenics would perhaps not be impossible (maybe if you were an omniscient being) but certainly a zillion times more difficult than to come up with a plan in the middle of a football or hockey game. (I am not into sports at all, but the part of the game when the coach does his five-minute magic with a marker and a board in his hand, always puts a smile on my face.) Now, compare the interaction between the ten players of your team (the genes) with the ten players of the other team (the environment.) No matter what the coach had planned, once they blow the whistle all the plans are immediately inapplicable. And this is only ten of your players vs. ten other players. Compare that to the thousands of the genes and the billions and billions of possible environmental pressures and you’ll realize that the proponents of eugenics are as admirable as are the, hmm, economic advisors.  smile

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Posted: 09 July 2011 05:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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All things equal, I don’t see any room for improvement in humanity.
I do see a need to drastically reduce our numbers though.

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Posted: 09 July 2011 05:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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George - 08 July 2011 02:58 PM
QuantumFrost - 08 July 2011 01:59 PM

Which is why genetic manipulation could stimulate a change in that trend. It is never going to be inherently “Bad” to be smart, or inherently “Dumb” to procreate more often than formulate. To strike a balance would not only dissolve any qualms over population figures, but it would also integrate greater reasoning into the vast current gene pool.

Artificial Selection, through genetic manipulation.

I have posted the past few posts from my iPhone and I now realize (now that I am back at my computer) that I didn’t fully answer your comments.

Look, to “strike a balance” in eugenics would perhaps not be impossible (maybe if you were an omniscient being) but certainly a zillion times more difficult than to come up with a plan in the middle of a football or hockey game. (I am not into sports at all, but the part of the game when the coach does his five-minute magic with a marker and a board in his hand, always puts a smile on my face.) Now, compare the interaction between the ten players of your team (the genes) with the ten players of the other team (the environment.) No matter what the coach had planned, once they blow the whistle all the plans are immediately inapplicable. And this is only ten of your players vs. ten other players. Compare that to the thousands of the genes and the billions and billions of possible environmental pressures and you’ll realize that the proponents of eugenics are as admirable as are the, hmm, economic advisors.  smile

A rational deduction, I see. While it is true concerning the feasibility, the ability to attempt/experiment is always there, and no opportunity should be wasted.

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Posted: 09 July 2011 05:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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VYAZMA - 09 July 2011 05:02 PM

All things equal, I don’t see any room for improvement in humanity.
I do see a need to drastically reduce our numbers though.

Humanity is still incredibly violent/Geo-centric. Aside from our inability to cope for millenia, we also have reasonably frail bodies. To improve our physical and cognitive functions dependent upon our environment can be seen as a productive “Stimulus”.

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Posted: 12 July 2011 04:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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QuantumFrost - 09 July 2011 05:58 PM
VYAZMA - 09 July 2011 05:02 PM

All things equal, I don’t see any room for improvement in humanity.
I do see a need to drastically reduce our numbers though.

Humanity is still incredibly violent/Geo-centric. Aside from our inability to cope for millenia, we also have reasonably frail bodies. To improve our physical and cognitive functions dependent upon our environment can be seen as a productive “Stimulus”.

A small point but really, people can’t be violent. Violence is just the outcome(the chemical reaction if you will.) of social behavioral conditions.(and yes, that goes all the way up to the levels of world wars.)
And social behavioral conditions are really just the outcome of evolution and naturalistic tendencies that can be attributed to our species.
The above describes perfectly one way in which our species copes just fine.
I think the easiest and most direct way in which we can genetically engineer our species is to curtail the propagation of DNA altogether.

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Posted: 13 July 2011 02:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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QuantumFrost - 08 July 2011 01:13 PM
traveler - 08 July 2011 01:08 PM
QuantumFrost - 08 July 2011 12:57 PM

While I retain a certain level of pessimism that I have acquired through life, I still see the genuine concern and sense of compassion present in what one calls an optimist. They can be deistic, atheist, or agnostic, but their concern and desire for the well-being of others is an observable trait, and they are not isolated enclaves.

I completely agree with that. But I don’t know that the percentage of those concerned with others is high enough to counter those who are not. I have raised three people from inception to productive adulthood. While I may not have influenced their behavior, I certainly did provide protection from those who would do harm. Sure, the school I sent them to and the activities they enjoyed were part of a protective community, but this presumes a very advantaged environment when compared to most of the world.

To be able to produce a “Proto” generation of advanced and far more wise humans could create the potential to increase the output of positive human traits in controlled environments, whereas most human birthing is random and creates vastly contrasting characters, while cloning could provide the platform for mastering the creation of a docile, intelligent, and healthy population to integrate with our largely aggressive “Base” population. It seems like a crappy eugenics-based “Master Race” argument, but the idea is still out there, untainted by lesser-minded individuals who seek to discriminate.

Who decides what is “advanced and far more wise”????? Lesser-minded individuals? Be careful with that one.


Re. 2 “Eugenics”

Advanced and far more wise. When I say such I tend to make the point of individuals who are far more adept at absorbing information, and can have an equal balance in using the full potential of their intellectual abilities. When I indicate “Lesser-minded”, I point towards individuals who show a level of ignorance/discrimination towards others. Tolerance is a beneficial trait, whereas I am saying that discriminatory and illogical people desire objectives trivial/harmful to others.


Hmmm…if we are cloning whole individuals, how do you make them any different than the original? If you start engineering parts of individuals, ala Frankenstein, you may not be able to control the results.
From my experience in life, I doubt that an intellectually/physically/emotionally superior “person” would remain just integrated into the general population.  They will rise to the top and become very visible.
The result will be a natural backlash by the people who are being replaced. Survival is a powerful and so far uncontrollable Natural Law and imperative.  We only need look at Obama, by all accounts a mentally/emotionally/physically superior person, and the fear and resentment his presidency has fostered.

This kind of projection cannot be compared to the Natural extinction (integration) of the Neanderthal.

[ Edited: 13 July 2011 02:49 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 13 July 2011 02:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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I’d prefer to have superior robots programmed to obey the “Laws of robotics”. No one will feel threatened possessing such a toy!
We already love our talking and self parking cars… cheese

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Posted: 13 July 2011 02:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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Write4U - 13 July 2011 02:45 PM

I’d prefer to have superior robots programmed to obey the “Laws of robotics”. No one will feel threatened possessing such a toy!
We already love our talking and self parking cars… cheese

Screw that jazz.  Bunch of Uncanny Valley inhabiting Terminators in waiting.  I say we strike first, before they’re prepared for us.

How-To-Survive-a-Robot-Uprising.jpeg

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Posted: 13 July 2011 02:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Dead Monky - 13 July 2011 02:48 PM
Write4U - 13 July 2011 02:45 PM

I’d prefer to have superior robots programmed to obey the “Laws of robotics”. No one will feel threatened possessing such a toy!
We already love our talking and self parking cars… cheese

Screw that jazz.  Bunch of Uncanny Valley inhabiting Terminators in waiting.  I say we strike first, before they’re prepared for us.

On the other hand…..no need to hire a human “maid” or “gardener” to clean up your apartment or tend to the flowers. I say marry a robot, it will drastically reduce the population…...without a lessening of procreative urges.

[ Edited: 13 July 2011 02:59 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 13 July 2011 02:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Write4U - 13 July 2011 02:55 PM

On the other hand…..no need to hire a human maid to clean up your apartment. I say marry a robot, it will drastically reduce the population…...without a lessening of procreative urges.

real_doll.jpg

Uh yeah, have at it there Romeo.  *shudders*

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Posted: 13 July 2011 03:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Dead Monky - 13 July 2011 02:58 PM
Write4U - 13 July 2011 02:55 PM

On the other hand…..no need to hire a human maid to clean up your apartment. I say marry a robot, it will drastically reduce the population…...without a lessening of procreative urges.

real_doll.jpg

Uh yeah, have at it there Romeo.  *shudders*

Can she wash dishes..?

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Posted: 13 July 2011 03:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Write4U - 13 July 2011 03:00 PM

Can she wash dishes..?

If she can, my response is, “Kill it.  Kill it with fire.”

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Posted: 13 July 2011 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Dead Monky - 13 July 2011 03:06 PM
Write4U - 13 July 2011 03:00 PM

Can she wash dishes..?

If she can, my response is, “Kill it.  Kill it with fire.”

But an intellectually/emotionally/physically superior, and “docile”, human clone would be acceptable?

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