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David Frum and Kenneth Silber - Conservatives and Science
Posted: 07 August 2011 06:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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rg21, you come off as one who see’s himself in the light of some forthright realist (as opposed to romantic), one who sees thing’s for what they truly are and isn’t misled by sentimentality. Not so. You sound more like a cynic (if not sadist) in disguise - one who takes cover under the banner of realism in order to stall the stride of progress.

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Posted: 07 August 2011 06:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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Unfortunately, rg21, you have demonstrated that you are severely non-functional in the areas of critical thinking, recognition of the difference between data and calumny, and rational discourse.  I’m not certain, but I believe you should serously consider psychiatric therapy.

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Posted: 07 August 2011 07:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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rg21, you come off as one who sees himself in the light of some forthright realist (as opposed to romantic), one who sees thing’s for what they truly are and isn’t misled by sentimentality. Not so. You sound more like a cynic (if not sadist) in disguise - one who takes cover under the banner of realism in order to stall the stride of progress.

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Posted: 07 August 2011 07:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I’ll bet you have a cell in one of those emptied Soviet psychiatric prisons reserved for me, with a little plaque on the door about tolerance. That’s what the left characteristically does with people so “dysfunctional” as to base conclusions on actual experience above political lies.

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Posted: 07 August 2011 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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P.S. I forgot to link to the ‘genocidal cult’ that rg21 is frothing at the mouth over: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Students_for_a_Democratic_Society_(1960_organization) - looks like they were totally incompetent at genocide… they didn’t even kill one person - just protested the Vietnam war and police brutality.

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Posted: 08 August 2011 03:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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The link to SDS doesn’t bring up anything. Is anyone denying that the left practiced bombing, arson, murder, blackmail, and destructive rioting? Does anyone claim the Weathermen were not planning a revolution more bloody than any in history? The other two links are intended to prove what – that some conservatives are mistaken or careless, or irresponsible about truth, therefore all are liars and all liberals speak absolute truth?
  Both the Communists and the Alinsyite contemporary left revile honesty as a bourgeois weakness and advocate deception and lying as important and effective weapons. I know of nothing remotely comparable on the right. You show trivial exaggerations and comic buffoons. I’ll mention just a few major and calculated deceptions: Walter Duranty, “I, Roberta,” “Baseline Essays.” Let’s go contemporary. The Democrats are presenting “tax the rich” as a measure to alleviate the federal budget deficit when, in fact, that would do little if anything to alleviate the deficit, and all of us here know it. We already have a steeply graduated tax structure. I like to ask Democrats how much more steeply graduated they want it. They never say anything but “more.” What is the ultimate goal here? Whatever it is, it is not a balanced budget or even a reduced deficit.
  Homosexual legitimization: presented as an equal rights issue. Homosexuals always have had the same rights as the rest of us. None of us can marry anyone we want or anyone we love. We have restrictions, all of us the same restrictions. Equal. What is being sought is special privileges for special people. What is being accomplished is defining deviance down to redeem one, but only one group of deviants despite a presentation much more broadly applicable, but not equal rights. Anyone with logical thinking capacity, and certainly judges should grasp this instantly, but the left deliberately and shamelessly uses the endlessly repeated lie as a strategy.

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Posted: 08 August 2011 05:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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rg21 - 08 August 2011 03:54 AM

The link to SDS doesn’t bring up anything. Is anyone denying that the left practiced bombing, arson, murder, blackmail, and destructive rioting?

I suggest checking out the SPLC’s hate map; there are over a thousand hate groups in the US alone; most or all of them could be classified as ‘right wing’, including the KKK, the Aryan Resistance and other neo-Nazi organizations. These groups have committed murder, bombings and other terrorist threats, and advocated for racist ideologies and racial genocide.

See also wiki’s list of white nationalist organizations in the United States.

rg21 - 08 August 2011 03:54 AM

Both the Communists and the Alinsyite contemporary left revile honesty as a bourgeois weakness and advocate deception and lying as important and effective weapons. I know of nothing remotely comparable on the right.

Er, what about Joseph Goebbels? Not to mention Roger Ailes and Fox News, or GWBush’s Karl Rove and his disdain of the “reality-based community”.

rg21 - 08 August 2011 03:54 AM

Let’s go contemporary. The Democrats are presenting “tax the rich” as a measure to alleviate the federal budget deficit when, in fact, that would do little if anything to alleviate the deficit, and all of us here know it. We already have a steeply graduated tax structure. I like to ask Democrats how much more steeply graduated they want it. They never say anything but “more.” What is the ultimate goal here? Whatever it is, it is not a balanced budget or even a reduced deficit.

Um, this is all incorrect. I suggest checking out the posts HERE and following, not to mention Buffett’s oft-cited observation that he pays a lower tax rate than his secretary. Fact is that the highest tax bracket in the US is now back down to where it was before the Great Depression, and there is no correlation between the top marginal tax rate and economic growth. There is little doubt that the US could bring its economy back into balance over the longer term by ratcheting the top marginal tax rate up to where it was, say, in the 1970s, not to mention the 1960s.

rg21 - 08 August 2011 03:54 AM

  Homosexual legitimization: presented as an equal rights issue. Homosexuals always have had the same rights as the rest of us. None of us can marry anyone we want or anyone we love. We have restrictions, all of us the same restrictions. Equal. What is being sought is special privileges for special people. What is being accomplished is defining deviance down to redeem one, but only one group of deviants despite a presentation much more broadly applicable, but not equal rights. Anyone with logical thinking capacity, and certainly judges should grasp this instantly, but the left deliberately and shamelessly uses the endlessly repeated lie as a strategy.

This is simple bigotry: hatred of others for being different, even when their difference makes no difference to you. What’s the point of all that anger?

There are violent radicals on the left and on the right. IMO they’re equally bad, and indeed I see little to distinguish them. They feed on hatred and insecurity, and foment the lie that the only way to deal with our problems is to kill or harm people with whom we disagree. All of them together are equally the problem, and all of them are enemies of any workable democracy.

[ Edited: 08 August 2011 06:29 AM by dougsmith ]
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Posted: 08 August 2011 07:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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@Doug,

Thanks for the links. They confirm what most of us knew - the right thrive on violent rhetoric and often violence, while imagining ‘the left’ (in actuality, anyone who does not agree with their obnoxious beliefs) want to round them up in to internment camps.

I just did a few searches for current far or extremist left organisations that espouse hatred or violence - but found nothing. Did I miss something? The far, far left seem intent on simply damaging property that represents social inequality.

rg21 is one of the clueless and angry who have chugged down the Koch Kool-Aid -  a turkey voting for Christmas:

* Growing Income Inequality in the USA. http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

And that largely describes ‘conservatives’ - a group who will consistently vote against their own interests based on what billionaires tell them.

P.S. I saw this link while searching which made me laugh: ‘Southern Poverty Law Center officially declared “left-wing hate group”’ http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/mbarber/100325

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Posted: 08 August 2011 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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For God’s sake, I thought the people here were supposed to be more intelligent or at least more rational. The vast majority of conservatives have nothing to do with Nazis (who were socialists. What the Hell is your justification for suggesting any association? I hate those lying tyrannical bloody demons just as badly as I do the communists. For years I’ve been active in my local Wallenberg Committee.)
  Look. Can we keep on point here. Whatever you may like about the graduated tax, it isn’t going to solve the budget deficit. It isn’t even going to touch it. It probably isn’t even going to bring in more money to the government. No matter how much you like it for other reasons. I said presenting a higher tax on upper income people as a solution to the deficit was a deliberate deception. That’s what I said and I am right.
  I seem to win every argument about homosexual legitimization. All the opponents ever do is call me names and whine about what a socially unacceptable person I am.
  Here’s the difference right and left you don’t want to see. The violent people and hate groups the left ever so conveniently lumps with political conservatives such as myself are outliers and deviants in the view of leading thinkers as well as the average conservative. The leaders of the left are graduates of and apologists for the extremists, the Marxists, the SDS and New Left, unrepentantly. William Buckley, George Will, even Rush Limbaugh, were never members of any group that advocated murder, lying, violent revolution, or genocide nor did they ever act as apologists or enablers for them. You can make believe the left is all flower children, but I was there and I know you are liars or damned fools if you do.
  We still hunt down and punish 90 year old Nazis. In the 70’s I met a self righteous woman from the Hudson Valley who ran a home for old Communists. “They have suffered enough.” And now the broken down old radicals run the country.  What is wrong with this picture?

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Posted: 16 August 2011 04:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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While you are ignoring and denying radical left violence on the basis of incompetence or because you can close your eyes tightly enough, you might stop to consider the long and consistent history of union violence, vandalism, bullying, threats, and corruption that the main stream left winks at and overtly condones. There is nothing comparable on the right.

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Posted: 16 August 2011 05:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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rg21 - 08 August 2011 07:27 PM

I seem to win every argument about homosexual legitimization. All the opponents ever do is call me names and whine about what a socially unacceptable person I am.

No, you don’t win the arguments, you are just too wrapped up in your bigotry to see reality. Homosexuals do not need “legitimization.” Your opponents resort to calling you names out of exasperation after realizing their attempts to reason with you have failed. They tell you that you are socially unacceptable because bigotry has become socially unacceptable to most people. The world is passing you by, and most of us are glad for that.

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Posted: 16 August 2011 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Well said, DarronS.

Here’s an excellent analysis from Dave Roberts: http://www.grist.org/climate-skeptics/2011-08-04-how-do-you-solve-a-problem-like-conservative-white-men

It’s about climate change denial, but his underlying thesis applies to all those things that radicalised ‘conservatives’ are in denial of or opposed to. Whether it’s gay rights, pro-choice for women, renewable energy or protection of the environment, the right have become increasingly detached from reality and decent society. They are unreachable with rational discourse, science and facts - as rg21 clearly demonstrates - so we need to accept that and move ahead without them. There are more sane people than wingnut Teabaggers.

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Posted: 16 August 2011 10:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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rg21 - 16 August 2011 04:50 AM

While you are ignoring and denying radical left violence on the basis of incompetence or because you can close your eyes tightly enough, you might stop to consider the long and consistent history of union violence, vandalism, bullying, threats, and corruption that the main stream left winks at and overtly condones. There is nothing comparable on the right.

Correct. The the right wing does not have to resort to civil disobedience. They have armies to do their bullying.

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Posted: 17 August 2011 11:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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For God’s sake, I thought the people here were supposed to be more intelligent or at least more rational. The vast majority of conservatives have nothing to do with Nazis ...

And the vast majority of liberals have nothing to do with nutters like the Weather Underground and the vast majority of Muslims have nothing to do with Al Queada or the Taliban.

I suppose I could go on and on but I hope you get the point. Just becuase terrorists pay lip service to an ideal doesn’t mean that the people who genuinely advocate a set of ideals agree with their methods. A few do but the vast majority do not.

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Posted: 18 August 2011 06:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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rg21 - 08 August 2011 07:27 PM

For God’s sake, I thought the people here were supposed to be more intelligent or at least more rational. The vast majority of conservatives have nothing to do with Nazis (who were socialists...

Thanks, that’s all I needed to know about your level of education.  No need to read further.

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