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STAR TREK
Posted: 15 August 2011 03:00 AM   [ Ignore ]
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I was just curious, does anyone dislike Star Trek?  I think it is dreadful, especially the original.  On a scale of 1 to 10 - 10 being best I’d give Next Generation a “2” maybe “3”.  The original and Voyager are not even a zero IMO. Anyone else not a fan?  If not,why not?

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Posted: 15 August 2011 05:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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mid atlantic - 15 August 2011 03:00 AM

I was just curious, does anyone dislike Star Trek?  I think it is dreadful, especially the original.  On a scale of 1 to 10 - 10 being best I’d give Next Generation a “2” maybe “3”.  The original and Voyager are not even a zero IMO. Anyone else not a fan?  If not,why not?

I liked TOS quite a lot; it was uneven (all of them are, but arguably none moreso than TOS), but its best episodes were SF classics. On sheer quality though I thought Next Generation was the best. Again, not all episodes, but overall.

One question: do you like SF generally? Some people don’t really have an understanding for it. I think if you generally aren’t moved by SF then there’s little chance you’d like Trek.

If you do like SF but hate Trek, there’s no explaining it.  LOL

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Posted: 15 August 2011 07:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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dougsmith - 15 August 2011 05:42 AM
mid atlantic - 15 August 2011 03:00 AM

I was just curious, does anyone dislike Star Trek?  I think it is dreadful, especially the original.  On a scale of 1 to 10 - 10 being best I’d give Next Generation a “2” maybe “3”.  The original and Voyager are not even a zero IMO. Anyone else not a fan?  If not,why not?

I liked TOS quite a lot; it was uneven (all of them are, but arguably none moreso than TOS), but its best episodes were SF classics. On sheer quality though I thought Next Generation was the best. Again, not all episodes, but overall.

One question: do you like SF generally? Some people don’t really have an understanding for it. I think if you generally aren’t moved by SF then there’s little chance you’d like Trek.

If you do like SF but hate Trek, there’s no explaining it.  LOL

  Generally, I’m not much of a SF fan; I can appreciate the films and TV shows a lot more than the books however.  TOS is something I’ve never been able to get into, DS9, and Voyager seemed boring,(although Kate Mulgrew did spice things up a bit).  TNG was not bad;  when it was on I was very small, so it had a different feel from now when I catch the re-runs.  The other night I was watching it and, the story struck me as tedious, but the acting was pretty good.  It seems like Trek is something that many freethinkers show passion for.

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Posted: 15 August 2011 09:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I haven’t been a regular watcher since the original Star Trek series.  Funny that, my pals flipped over the shows and talked nonstop about the first couple.  Being my contrarian self I thought pooh-pooh on that nonsense but when I finally watched the third or fourth episode I was hooked.  Mind you I was a kid then and seeing reruns is crazy indeed.

I did see a few of the Next Generation (the one with Data) and some did capture my attention for sure, I specially liked a couple that revolved around Data and his curiosity and desire to be human… I think some of those were very well written.  Though other episodes were easy to turn off, so I’d have to agree they were uneven.

Loved the Star Trek movie where our Voyager space craft was the punch line… fantastic that one.

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Posted: 15 August 2011 10:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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I can’t stand Star Trek.  I find it preachy, heavy handed, and frequently rather poorly written.  I’m actually most forgiving of the original series simply because it was so low budget and had some camp appeal.  The later series though just grate on me.  Especially the egregious use of Treknobabble and idiotic science-ish gibberish to solve every problem.  Moon going to explode?  Tachyon field.  Tribbles lodged in your nethers?  Transporter magic hoohah.  Raped by a Klingon?  Deflector dish!  Bleh.

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Posted: 15 August 2011 10:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Dead Monky - 15 August 2011 10:06 AM

I can’t stand Star Trek.  I find it preachy, heavy handed, and frequently rather poorly written.  I’m actually most forgiving of the original series simply because it was so low budget and had some camp appeal.  The later series though just grate on me.  Especially the egregious use of Treknobabble and idiotic science-ish gibberish to solve every problem.  Moon going to explode?  Tachyon field.  Tribbles lodged in your nethers?  Transporter magic hoohah.  Raped by a Klingon?  Deflector dish!  Bleh.

But, but, isn’t that what science fiction is all about ?

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Posted: 15 August 2011 10:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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mid atlantic - 15 August 2011 03:00 AM

I was just curious, does anyone dislike Star Trek?  I think it is dreadful, especially the original.  On a scale of 1 to 10 - 10 being best I’d give Next Generation a “2” maybe “3”.  The original and Voyager are not even a zero IMO. Anyone else not a fan?  If not,why not?

What do you consider to be GOOD television or movie science fiction so I can try to better get your point?

There can be lots of different reasons for liking or disliking a show or actor or episode.  This may say more about that person’s personality than anything else.  I think that by the standards of the mid-sixties the first tow seasons of Star Trek were pretty good.  By comparison to good science fiction literature of the time it was not too impressive.  So I have different standards.  I think Babylon 5 is the best TV sci-fi to date.

psik

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Posted: 15 August 2011 10:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 15 August 2011 10:24 AM

But, but, isn’t that what science fiction is all about ?

Not always.  What bothers me so much about Star Trek in particular is that the shows seem to use technology as a crutch to lean on.  Rather than actually write anything interesting or, you know hard, they just fix it all with babbling, quasi-science magic.  Pfeh.  It’s a sign of bad sci-fi and bad writing in general.

And the entire feel of Star Trek just doesn’t sit well with me.  So there’s that.

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Posted: 15 August 2011 10:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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What I used to like about ST was the filming technique. The old ST were filmed as a moving comic strip. Every scene could be cut and pasted as a freestanding frame in a comic book.
I believe this familiar style had a lot to do with its success.

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Posted: 15 August 2011 11:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Dead Monky - 15 August 2011 10:33 AM
citizenschallenge.pm - 15 August 2011 10:24 AM

But, but, isn’t that what science fiction is all about ?

Not always.  What bothers me so much about Star Trek in particular is that the shows seem to use technology as a crutch to lean on.  Rather than actually write anything interesting or, you know hard, they just fix it all with babbling, quasi-science magic.  Pfeh.  It’s a sign of bad sci-fi and bad writing in general.

True, and lots of people have called them on the Treknobabble issue. If that were all there were to it, they wouldn’t be considered SF classics.

And I think among SF folks, Treknobabble is an example of bad SF.

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Posted: 15 August 2011 11:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Dead Monky - 15 August 2011 10:33 AM
citizenschallenge.pm - 15 August 2011 10:24 AM

But, but, isn’t that what science fiction is all about ?

Not always.  What bothers me so much about Star Trek in particular is that the shows seem to use technology as a crutch to lean on.  Rather than actually write anything interesting or, you know hard, they just fix it all with babbling, quasi-science magic.  Pfeh.  It’s a sign of bad sci-fi and bad writing in general.

And the entire feel of Star Trek just doesn’t sit well with me.  So there’s that.

By that standard the Original Star Trek was better than the later ones.

psik

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Posted: 15 August 2011 11:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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psikeyhackr - 15 August 2011 11:18 AM

By that standard the Original Star Trek was better than the later ones.

Yeah, although there was still a lot of hay made of the dilithium crystals in TOS. To be fair to Trek, if it’d been a film about battleships, Scotty would have been yelling about the boilers almost bursting. There’s a level of that kind of chatter that seems to me perfectly reasonable in a dramatic show.

If you’re doing SF you are by definition working with technologies which don’t actually exist. And then insofar as the plot uses that technology, there has to be some amount of hand-waving. (Since if it wasn’t hand-waving, it wouldn’t be science fiction). That’s what makes SF a version of fantasy literature. But (1) the hand waving has to be at least sort of believable, and not simply Treknobabble. (One reason to like the ‘Heisenberg compensators’ on the transporter is that at least the name takes into account the quantum mechanical problem involved with fixing the location and momentum of each atom in the original body).

And (2) the plot denouement shouldn’t depend essentially on that piece of fictional stuff, or the plot becomes a version of deus ex machina.

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Posted: 15 August 2011 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Sorry guys (not Doug), but you don’t know what you’re talking about.  I loved both TOS and TNG ( not the others so much, except for Seven of Nine) because they often showed our present social stupidities in a subtle way that could get past people’s conscious prejudices, similar to Jonathan Swift.  I agree that it was too complex for most to appreciate.  LOL 

I also enjoyed the way they extrapolated technology that, while not presently available, wasn’t often obviously impossible. 

Occam

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Posted: 15 August 2011 12:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Occam. - 15 August 2011 12:15 PM

Sorry guys (not Doug), but you don’t know what you’re talking about.  I loved both TOS and TNG ( not the others so much, except for Seven of Nine) because they often showed our present social stupidities in a subtle way that could get past people’s conscious prejudices, similar to Jonathan Swift.  I agree that it was too complex for most to appreciate.  LOL 

I also enjoyed the way they extrapolated technology that, while not presently available, wasn’t often obviously impossible. 

Occam

Subtle?  Hah!  Were you watching the same shows I was, Occam?

EDIT
Fixed a rather important word omission.

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Posted: 15 August 2011 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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I was raised on Star Trek since ‘66 and I raised my sons on it.  It was how I was introduced to humanism, because Gene actually did use the media to send a message and embedded some humanistic thought.  My Faves are TOS and TNG, but I find DS9 and VOY are good too, but I don’t care much for ENT.

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Posted: 15 August 2011 03:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Dead Monky - 15 August 2011 10:06 AM

I can’t stand Star Trek.  I find it preachy, heavy handed, and frequently rather poorly written.  I’m actually most forgiving of the original series simply because it was so low budget and had some camp appeal.  The later series though just grate on me.  Especially the egregious use of Treknobabble and idiotic science-ish gibberish to solve every problem.  Moon going to explode?  Tachyon field.  Tribbles lodged in your nethers?  Transporter magic hoohah.  Raped by a Klingon?  Deflector dish!  Bleh.

It is preachy isn’t it, that’s probably why humanists like it!!  I hate to admit it, but I can’t even find camp appeal to TOS.

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