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Athiesm’s catch 22?
Posted: 26 August 2011 01:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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TheodorePliske - 26 August 2011 01:06 PM

The people I know who have the most faith are often the most miserable.

I believe that. The OP seems to be at the ‘other’ end of the spectrum, however.

I have always thought about it this way: we have, if we are born in the right land, about 70 sum years available to us on this earth, more perhaps by the end of my lifetime. Most people over the course of this life will have to worry about working, eating, having a home and taking care of a family. Most have maybe a few hours a week to ponder the nature of their life. For most science, that is about enough to read an introductory book, if we are to presume that our free time is spent on inquiry into our consciousness and life and the universe. Now, most people will be too exhausted to bother. They will want to watch something easy to watch. Religion is coherent and easy to access. It provides relief that no science could ever provide. For science, you need to accustom yourself to theory after theory and counter-theory and school and school-within-a-school… all of which lead to: “We do not know!” Does that sound appealing to a person who is tired and exhausted? Forcing Atheism down these peoples throats is like invading a country to spread democracy. It simply will not work out the way people want it. Ultimately, the response by the religious right in the last several years goes to prove my point.

Sounds about right. Still, I respect the questions of life enough to hold onto “I don’t know” until I do. And I think you have the invading another country backwards; it is the religious right invading my country.

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Posted: 26 August 2011 01:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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sobpatrick - 24 August 2011 09:51 PM

Hi all - just wondered how athiest deal with the following:
1) If there is no God and life occurs as a natural phenomina of the universe - as abiogenesis/evolution would dictate - then life would have evolved on trillions of planets in the universe - many evolving billions of years prior to ours - not that they would all be billions of years advanced of us on the evolutionary chain - but undoubtedly millions of life forms would be - such beings would be gods - capable of manipulating every aspect of our realities (no space-ships or lasers necessary).  Hence - if you are an athiest but believe evolution/abiogenesis (which I’m sure most do) then you should believe in many Gods - maybe the Hindus got it right?

I think you have been reading too much DUMB science fiction and believing it.

No matter how advanced any such beings become they would still be limited by physics and would just use technology to manipulate physics.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke

People interpret that slightly different ways.  The technology is only magic to the people who don’t know enough about it.  We may be more advanced than the ancient Romans but our gasoline powered chariots still use wheels.

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Posted: 26 August 2011 01:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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it is the religious right invading my country.

Well, that was sort of my intent. It was meant to be ironic.

[ Edited: 26 August 2011 01:37 PM by TheodorePliske ]
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Posted: 26 August 2011 02:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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TheodorePliske - 26 August 2011 01:34 PM

it is the religious right invading my country.

Well, that was sort of my intent. It was meant to be ironic.

Just making sure…  smile

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Posted: 26 August 2011 03:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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sobpatrick - 24 August 2011 09:51 PM

2) There’s one place God exists for certain - the human mind - the same place where reality exists - how can you say one exists and another doesn’t when both are manifestations of our consiousness?

So the invisible pink unicorn and the flying spaghetti monster also exist? I think your concept of “existence” needs some work.

3) not so much a catch 22 - just questions -
What would turn an athiest into a believer? 
Do they want to see God? 
What would they expect or want to see? 
Do they expect an all power being? 
Do they think an all powerful being (or just a more intellegent being) would be interested in gaining their support by revealing itself in a way that would satisfy them? 
Do they want a paranormal experience? 

This all depends on the person. Not all atheists are alike. I would need either personal experience of God along with and proof that I was not hallucinating it, or some science proving that God exists. I find this highly unlikely due to the self-contradictory nature of Yahweh.

Have any of you athiest had a paranormal experience?

Not provably.

Is there anything that challenges an athiest belief more than turbulance?

What do you mean by turbulence?

When you think about it - bad moments in life are like one in a million (less actually).  For every bad second we live there’s like a hundred million good.  Is there really any accounting for such overwelmingly positive odds?

As others have pointed out, it depends on where you live and who you are. Some people live very “bad” lives. Others simply believe they live bad lives, sometimes to the point of suicide, even if they are well off. It is inherently subjective. It may also be evolutionary. Perhaps it is good for survival to stay positive in general, which is why you are using that strategy.

Do you look around you -  at the beauty of Paris, the hustle and bustle of New York city and think “this all occurs by chance with no reason - give things enough time and Ipads and I phones will result - no blueprints needed for blue-prints? 

I think you’re referring to biological evolution and the blind watchmaker? You have to remember evolution is not JUST chance. For evolution to occur you need variation, heritability, and selection. There are elements of chance in all three, in biological evolution. Even though you are talking about technology, which is somewhat different from biological evolution, you could appreciate the beauty of nature as well. There are no blueprints needed, because we know how it came about, and we see that blueprints were never a part of it. ID arguments fail because science (biology) trumps argumentation (ID/creationism).

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Posted: 27 August 2011 09:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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To the symphony of life no one has the score.

IMO, the whole line of questioning seems off. This is not about other inhabitants of the universe, primitive or advanced.

It is the question of a single universal intelligent entitiy which holds dominion over the universe and is entitled to worship.

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Posted: 28 August 2011 03:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Geez, that’s what - 3, 4 days without a response from the original poster?

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Posted: 28 August 2011 07:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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TromboneAndrew - 28 August 2011 03:06 AM

Geez, that’s what - 3, 4 days without a response from the original poster?


Hmmmm, if it quacks like a troll…  LOL

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Posted: 04 September 2011 06:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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Everything that sobpatrick pointed out was a clear example of why we need to have critical thinking taught as a requirement in schools.

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Posted: 04 September 2011 06:33 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Quite true, but if it were, think of how many politicians and ministers would be out of a job.  smile

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Posted: 04 September 2011 06:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Occam. - 04 September 2011 06:33 PM

Quite true, but if it were, think of how many politicians and ministers would be out of a job.  smile

Occam

LOL

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Posted: 06 September 2011 09:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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Looks like our poster was a drive-by demi-troll.

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