traveler - 30 November 2011 06:42 AM

StephenLawrence - 30 November 2011 03:20 AM

Nope, not unless these people have less children or their children have less children.

We agree except for the “nope” in the above statement. Let’s replace that with yes, because common symptoms of diabetes include erectile dysfunction in men and miscarriage in women.

It’s not obvious we should replace it with a yes. We’d need statistics.

And it’s not a very satisfactory solution.

Stephen

StephenLawrence - 30 November 2011 08:05 AM

traveler - 30 November 2011 06:42 AM

StephenLawrence - 30 November 2011 03:20 AM

Nope, not unless these people have less children or their children have less children.

We agree except for the “nope” in the above statement. Let’s replace that with yes, because common symptoms of diabetes include erectile dysfunction in men and miscarriage in women.

It’s not obvious we should replace it with a yes. We’d need statistics.

And it’s not a very satisfactory solution.

Stephen

Of course it’s not a satisfactory solution. But it is nature’s course if we aren’t smart enough to care for ourselves. And I we already have some statistics. Miscarriage rates for uncontrolled diabetes can be as high as 30-60%. That should be enough for us to take corrective action. LINK

traveler - 30 November 2011 10:12 AM

Of course it’s not a satisfactory solution.

Right.

But it is nature’s course if we aren’t smart enough to care for ourselves.

Right so we’re back to how do we foster an environment in which a higher percentage of people eat healthily and exercise?

It’s a political question really, I suppose. Or is trying to do this even less satisfactory than “letting nature take it’s course”?

And I we already have some statistics. Miscarriage rates for uncontrolled diabetes can be as high as 30-60%.

Yes but that’s not what I meant. This doesn’t tell us if obese women have less children than non obese. It doesn’t tell us if obese women who go on to get diabetes have less children than non obese. And it doesn’t even tell us if obese women who get diabetes and miscarry have less children than non obese.

Stephen

StephenLawrence - 02 December 2011 02:13 AM

Yes but that’s not what I meant. This doesn’t tell us if obese women have less children than non obese. It doesn’t tell us if obese women who go on to get diabetes have less children than non obese. And it doesn’t even tell us if obese women who get diabetes and miscarry have less children than non obese.

Well, that’s a bit stubborn. 
It certainly tells us that the women who miscarry because they have uncontrolled diabetes (and are usually obese) have fewer children (the miscarried children). Of course they may repeatedly get pregnant in order to “make up” for their loss, but given the current prevalent view of “beauty” one must wonder about the number and health of available suitors. As I said, erectile dysfunction is also a symptom of diabetes.

It seems we can safely say that at least a “dent” is made in the number of offspring - but I agree we don’t know the exact size.

traveler - 02 December 2011 07:14 AM

StephenLawrence - 02 December 2011 02:13 AM

Yes but that’s not what I meant. This doesn’t tell us if obese women have less children than non obese. It doesn’t tell us if obese women who go on to get diabetes have less children than non obese. And it doesn’t even tell us if obese women who get diabetes and miscarry have less children than non obese.

Well, that’s a bit stubborn. 

I am.

I think it’s interesting in that I wonder who is being appropriately sceptical. Am I over sceptical or are you under sceptical?

I think there are potential factors that could easily reverse the result you expect and so believe only statistics comparing the obese and non obese will do.

Stephen

Trouble is making money is about giving people what they want and people choose unhealthy options over healthy ones, often

Once again, fat, salt and sugar!! Or every fast food store in America! Aviod them like the plague. (Will I be sued for this post?) Screw it I don’t care. It’s true!

Cap’t Jack