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WikiLeaks: Iraqi children in U.S. raid shot in head, U.N. say
Posted: 03 September 2011 10:14 AM   [ Ignore ]
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http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/08/31/122789/wikileaks-iraqi-children-in-us.html

WikiLeaks: Iraqi children in U.S. raid shot in head, U.N. says


This cell phone photo was shot by a resident of Ishaqi on March 15, 2006, of bodies Iraqi police said were of children executed by U.S. troops after a night raid there. Here, the bodies of the five children are wrapped in blankets and laid in a pickup bed to be taken for burial. A State Department cable obtained by WikiLeaks quotes the U.N. investigator of extrajudicial killings as saying an autopsy showed the residents of the house had been handcuffed and shot in the head, including children under the age of 5. McClatchy obtained the photo from a resident when the incident occurred. ...

[Additional copyrighted info deleted. Please do NOT copy entire articles off of copyrighted sources. Usage is as per “fair use”: a few sentences only, with a link as necessary. dougsmith - Admin]

[ Edited: 03 September 2011 10:21 AM by dougsmith ]
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Posted: 03 September 2011 10:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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The released cable:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/08/31/122766/cable-massacre-of-iraqi-family.html

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Posted: 03 September 2011 10:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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There are no words to describe this. Wikileaks has shown that the spirit of My Lae is still present in the US army. To think that this stuff was done to “protect my freedom”. Where are the American citizens to protest this? At least Nazi era Germans could argue that they did not have the means of information… We Americans have no argument whatsoever. The passivity of this country is downright disgusting. I’m sure that a part of the country (Fox News watchers) will never hear it and would excuse it even if they heard it.

A very good talk by Robert Fisk on the “Age of the Warrior”: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFpel7pTKzY

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Posted: 03 September 2011 11:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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I imagine people don’t react to these kind of news because they find hard to believe it’s true. The same happened in Germany; true, most of what was happening in the concentration camps was unknown to the public but even when people had heard about it they were inclined to think of it as not true.

People who decide to become soldiers are in an agreement with violence and we should not be surprised when they behave violently. I would never shake my hand with a military person.

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Posted: 03 September 2011 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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The story reads strongly like it could be fabricated by the Iraqi authorities.

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Posted: 03 September 2011 04:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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George - 03 September 2011 11:08 AM

People who decide to become soldiers are in an agreement with violence and we should not be surprised when they behave violently. I would never shake my hand with a military person.

Given the chance, I’ll still offer my hand. Not all people in the military are monsters.

mid atlantic - 03 September 2011 02:20 PM

The story reads strongly like it could be fabricated by the Iraqi authorities.

It may be, or it may not be. The cable itself is NOT a primary source. Neither is the photo, because it only shows the aftermath. Based on what information is here, either scenario (that of Iraqi fabrication or an out-of-control U.S. squad of soldiers) is possible.

[ Edited: 03 September 2011 04:20 PM by TromboneAndrew ]
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Posted: 03 September 2011 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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I fear that this will be one of those events where people decide what to believe based on their pre-existing prejudices—which will only serve to harden those prejudices.

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Posted: 03 September 2011 07:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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I don’t know. I"m just some layman on the internet who is reading about some accusations made against U.S. troops. I can’t decide what really happened, but I do know one thing: its not difficult or unthinkable for insurgents to orchestrate such an event with the intention of damaging the US’ reputation. Don’t forget that sociopaths (i.e terrorists and insurgents) don’t have a problem with killing their own countrymen, including the children. They do it all the time.

I’m just saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that the killers were not US troops. Its not that far-fetched.

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Posted: 03 September 2011 09:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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TromboneAndrew - 03 September 2011 04:13 PM
George - 03 September 2011 11:08 AM

People who decide to become soldiers are in an agreement with violence and we should not be surprised when they behave violently. I would never shake my hand with a military person.

Given the chance, I’ll still offer my hand. Not all people in the military are monsters.

Okay, those who are willing to kill and their sympathizes are a danger to me and not worthy of my handshake. And destroying Gershwin doesn’t help either.

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Posted: 03 September 2011 09:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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George - 03 September 2011 09:00 PM
TromboneAndrew - 03 September 2011 04:13 PM
George - 03 September 2011 11:08 AM

People who decide to become soldiers are in an agreement with violence and we should not be surprised when they behave violently. I would never shake my hand with a military person.

Given the chance, I’ll still offer my hand. Not all people in the military are monsters.

Okay, those who are willing to kill and their sympathizes are a danger to me and not worthy of my handshake. And destroying Gershwin doesn’t help either.

Are you just speaking about war or killing in general?

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Posted: 03 September 2011 10:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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Cloak - 03 September 2011 09:55 PM

Are you just speaking about war or killing in general?

What’s the difference? To kill results in death. To kill in a name of whatever your puppeteers tell you to, still results in death. A lot has been said about intelligence and rationality on this forum and they both (supposedly) justify a great deal, killing included. I don’t buy any of it. Death is horrible. Not that I am a moral realist, but I just don’t like it.

[ Edited: 03 September 2011 10:23 PM by George ]
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Posted: 03 September 2011 10:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Chris Crawford - 03 September 2011 06:34 PM

I fear that this will be one of those events where people decide what to believe based on their pre-existing prejudices—which will only serve to harden those prejudices.

The army could do the proper thing: investigate. If the investigations are done properly (meaning internationally) then it could go away towards mending the issue or disproving it… I fear that my country is too arrogant and nationalistic for such a thing though

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Posted: 04 September 2011 01:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Killing is good sometimes.

[ Edited: 04 September 2011 01:21 AM by mid atlantic ]
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Posted: 04 September 2011 01:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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The Army will only investigate if there is blatent proof of murder.

[ Edited: 04 September 2011 01:25 AM by mid atlantic ]
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Posted: 04 September 2011 01:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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Cloak - 03 September 2011 07:02 PM

I don’t know. I"m just some layman on the internet who is reading about some accusations made against U.S. troops. I can’t decide what really happened, but I do know one thing: its not difficult or unthinkable for insurgents to orchestrate such an event with the intention of damaging the US’ reputation. Don’t forget that sociopaths (i.e terrorists and insurgents) don’t have a problem with killing their own countrymen, including the children. They do it all the time.

I’m just saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that the killers were not US troops. Its not that far-fetched.

Yes, there is precedent for this. There is also precedent for the version where U.S. troops did it. The sad truth is that when thrown into the extreme violence that happens in war, every person reacts differently. Even in a model army, a few of those people will react by basically going bonkers. I certainly am biased, but I think that the U.S. military in general has a leadership system set up that actually does a pretty good job of helping people keep their heads - certainly vastly better than anything anyone in the Middle East’s military systems was working with, as the confirmed record of atrocities from either side clearly shows. But, it’s not perfect.

TheodorePliske - 03 September 2011 10:46 PM
Chris Crawford - 03 September 2011 06:34 PM

I fear that this will be one of those events where people decide what to believe based on their pre-existing prejudices—which will only serve to harden those prejudices.

The army could do the proper thing: investigate. If the investigations are done properly (meaning internationally) then it could go away towards mending the issue or disproving it… I fear that my country is too arrogant and nationalistic for such a thing though

According to the article, the Army did investigate, and found no wrongdoing at the time.

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Posted: 04 September 2011 07:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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I read the communique and it was dated 2006. Surely by now the truth would have emerged. Soldiers talk, even if they’re told not to. If it were true, our press would be on this story with the gusto of a hound dog. One possible scenerio might have been that there was firing in the house and the squad was told to return fire. everyone is equipped with an automatic waepon and, I hate to use the phrase collateral damage, the end result might have been that all of the occupants were killed. Or the Iraquis might have done it. Either way our troops are trained not to fire unless ordered to do so. Yes, killing is legalized murder and if we want it to stop we, collectively can force our government’s hand and make it stop. Where are the massive antiwar rallies, the marches on D.C., letters to our congressmen? Are we so deluded by our leaders that we allow the war to continue? Or has the economy taken center stage and no one remembers that we still have troops in the Middle East? Do we still need to be there? Will the 9-11 decade memorial refuel our “need” to be there? I wonder.

Cap’t Jack

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