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CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured (Merged)
Posted: 22 September 2011 01:57 PM   [ Ignore ]
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(AP)  GENEVA — A fundamental pillar of physics — that nothing can go faster than the speed of light — appears to be smashed by an oddball subatomic particle that has apparently made a giant end run around Albert Einstein’s theories.

Read more here http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/09/22/ap/tech/main20110301.shtml

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Posted: 22 September 2011 02:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Fool me once… Let’s see if a repeat is successful. Interesting though, thanks!

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Posted: 22 September 2011 02:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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From what I understand, CERN has repeated the experiment, and studied the data and the validity of their test for months. They are now asking for independent verification. They don’t want to believe it either, but there it is. They aren’t claiming it as a discovery until independently verified, but this isn’t some crackpot group making these statements either.

Another version of the article
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_BREAKING_LIGHT_SPEED?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

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Posted: 22 September 2011 02:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Right, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. In this case I think it requires verification by more than one independent lab. That said, as you note CERN is very highly respected.

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Posted: 22 September 2011 03:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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The ever-level-headed Phil Plait weighs in HERE.

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Posted: 22 September 2011 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Then there is the question, how long did this particle exist. If it existed for just an instant it does not prove anything. “Inflation” occurred faster than light, but only for an incredibly short period, which IMO proves that the event horizon remains at SOL, which IMO is the fastest possible way for reality (quantum) to manifest itself.

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Posted: 22 September 2011 04:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Assuming that the timing is correct, what if the they are wrong about the path the neutrinos took to get to Italy? Maybe there is another dimension where the shortest way is shorter by 60 nanoseconds. Okay, have to go now: I am expecting a call from CERN…

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Posted: 22 September 2011 04:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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When my husband was alive and explained the Cern project to me, he said the speed of light will never be passed or proven.  I find it difficult to see how this is possible and if possible how is it proven?  Wouldn’t it be like a time machine with a paradox problem?  My husband was a Caltech nuclear Physicist and had visited Cern before his death.  He died not knowing his own name.

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Posted: 22 September 2011 07:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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The red carpet has been rolled out for a tidal wave of psuedoscience! rolleyes

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Posted: 22 September 2011 07:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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mid atlantic - 22 September 2011 07:16 PM

The red carpet has been rolled out for a tidal wave of psuedoscience! rolleyes

Ok, I’ll go first. The space-time is composed of an infinitive number of “blocks” (viz. eternalism) and the neutrino is so small that it’s simply not detectable in some of these blocks. Since space and time are a single continuum and the neutrino is absent in some portion of space, it also appears that the time it took to get from CERN to Italy is shorter. Actually, it doesn’t just appear that way, the time was shorter, but not because it was faster than light.

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Posted: 22 September 2011 10:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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George - 22 September 2011 07:54 PM
mid atlantic - 22 September 2011 07:16 PM

The red carpet has been rolled out for a tidal wave of psuedoscience! rolleyes

Ok, I’ll go first. The space-time is composed of an infinitive number of “blocks” (viz. eternalism) and the neutrino is so small that it’s simply not detectable in some of these blocks. Since space and time are a single continuum and the neutrino is absent in some portion of space, it also appears that the time it took to get from CERN to Italy is shorter. Actually, it doesn’t just appear that way, the time was shorter, but not because it was faster than light.

How did I do?  cheese

Sounds good to me, but I’m not qualified to critique particle physics!

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Posted: 22 September 2011 10:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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I’m certainly not qualified, but it such fun to speculate….. cheese

Are these not the ghost stories of particle physics?  I am absolutely fascinated by this.

[ Edited: 22 September 2011 10:30 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 22 September 2011 11:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Maybe this does not affect SOL at all. Not if this neutrino was a tachyon, a metaphysical particle travelling at greater than SOL, as a tachyon must, but it has no mass, it’s virtual.
A ghost of a particle…... cheese

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light

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Posted: 23 September 2011 02:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Write4U - 22 September 2011 11:05 PM

Maybe this does not affect SOL at all. Not if this neutrino was a tachyon, a metaphysical particle travelling at greater than SOL, as a tachyon must, but it has no mass, it’s virtual.
A ghost of a particle…... cheese

A tachyon has imaginary mass, which is not the same as zero mass. Zero mass particles move at the velocity of light. Neutrinos have mass, so they cannot even travel faster than light.

My guess: there is some error in the experiment, or there is some other very funny effect. But special relativity is already confirmed so many times, and used in technology, that it cannot be false.

And what is a metaphysical particle?

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Posted: 23 September 2011 02:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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GdB - 23 September 2011 02:17 AM
Write4U - 22 September 2011 11:05 PM

Maybe this does not affect SOL at all. Not if this neutrino was a tachyon, a metaphysical particle travelling at greater than SOL, as a tachyon must, but it has no mass, it’s virtual.
A ghost of a particle…... cheese

A tachyon has imaginary mass, which is not the same as zero mass. Zero mass particles move at the velocity of light. Neutrinos have mass, so they cannot even travel faster than light.

My guess: there is some error in the experiment, or there is some other very funny effect. But special relativity is already confirmed so many times, and used in technology, that it cannot be false.

And what is a metaphysical particle?

I believe all tachyons have a negative mass (imaginary) else they could not exceed SOL. A photon has zero mass, that is why it travels at SOL.

As I cannot imagine negative mass, for me it is a metaphysical (outside the physical) property. How does negative mass act under gravity (floats)? or inside elctro/magnetics (inverse fields)?      IMO, a FTL particle does not interact with SOL physical reality and that makes it metaphysical.

[ Edited: 23 September 2011 03:07 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 23 September 2011 06:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Being married to a nuclear scientist does not qualify me to have answered or replied.  I spent many years updating his list of patents and never understood a single word or symbol.  I stand in awe of all of you.

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