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CERN claims faster-than-light particle measured (Merged)
Posted: 24 September 2011 07:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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George - 23 September 2011 03:43 PM

Science may not care, but scientists do. Even (or perhaps even especially) the real scientists. This may not be the appropriate place for it, but if you’d like we get get into more details on this subject one day.

Actually, I think we agree on this George. I created the problem when I said “real scientists.” That was a brain fart. What I meant was that since science doesn’t care, those who do science should not care, but of course that’s sky pie.

(I was curious as to the origin of that phrase, so I looked it up. I like this Joe Hill guy. LINK)

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Posted: 24 September 2011 08:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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I have never heard that phrase before. Interesting.

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Posted: 24 September 2011 09:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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Okay Keith.  I’ll check it out…..I love Italian Opera.

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Posted: 24 September 2011 11:10 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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What I’m wondering is how this can be applied in the real world in terms of engineering IF...and that’s one mighty big “IF”...this can be confirmed.

It would certainly throw sand in the notion that it would take an infinite amount of energy to reach and surpass the speed of light.

Of course, this could all turn out to be one huge mistake, but if it holds up, it’ll be interesting to see where any further research leads.

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Posted: 24 September 2011 11:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 24 September 2011 11:10 AM

What I’m wondering is how this can be applied in the real world in terms of engineering IF...and that’s one mighty big “IF”...this can be confirmed.

It would certainly throw sand in the notion that it would take an infinite amount of energy to reach and surpass the speed of light.

Of course, this could all turn out to be one huge mistake, but if it holds up, it’ll be interesting to see where any further research leads.

Interestingly, they said these particle were near zero mass, which means what?

Near zero mass?
Near zero “imaginary” mass?
Near zero “negative” mass?

I could see the latter two, but “any mass at >SOL” ??

If all this is true, I predict several suicides by prominent scientists unable to reconcile their mind with any such fact.

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Posted: 24 September 2011 04:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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keithprosser2 - 24 September 2011 07:39 AM

Maybe the experiment shows you can travel faster than light - but only to Italy.

Kind of like an Italian car; it’s very expensive, very fast, very attractive and you can only drive it once before it falls apart. tongue laugh

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Posted: 17 October 2011 04:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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I’m not surprised.  This is not the first time there has been a claim something moved through space faster than light speed but none of the claims have held up.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/09/scientists-question-neutrinos/

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Posted: 18 October 2011 12:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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The very question here is whether the CERN measurements can be counted against Einstein’s theory. I had several friends who claim that there can be things that go faster than light. When, asked for evidence, they pointed to this CERN experiment. However, that is begging the question.

CERN scientists have toiled extensively for this experiment. So, it seems it is unfair to accuse them. However, our intuitions of fairness shall not interfere our pursuit of truth. It only took several nanoseconds for neutrinos to go from Geneva to Italy. So, when you are measuring something from nanoseconds, you need to measure the time needed for electronic signals to pass through computer chips. A slight error in these measurements can mess up the whole experiment.

[ Edited: 18 October 2011 12:09 PM by Sankalpa ]
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Posted: 18 October 2011 04:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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If it takes infinite energy to accelerate a massive particle to attain speed of light (photon = 0 mass), and this new particle has “some” mass but is still able to travel at FTL, then where does the energy come from to dive this particle past SOL?  CERN?  Can colliding particles generate sufficient energy to drive a massive particle at FTL?
It just makes no sense. It seems mathematically and physically and energetically impossible.

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Posted: 18 October 2011 05:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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Yes, it does, however, that’s within the present theories.  If the results can be replicated and verified, it will mean that the mathematics defining the theory will have to be modified.

Occam

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Posted: 18 October 2011 05:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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keithprosser2 - 24 September 2011 07:39 AM

Maybe the experiment shows you can travel faster than light - but only to Italy.

The rarified air of Italy, ......but of course….. cheese .

But then maybe the experiment shows we can travel back in time…... rolleyes

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Posted: 22 October 2011 07:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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Einstein refuted? Not really, according to:

From this article HERE

A new paper by Dutch researcher Ronald A.J. van Elburg lays out the case that the GPS satellite measuring the neutrinos’ movements was also moving relative to the CERN and OPERA facilities as it orbited the Earth. Briefly, van Elburg asserts that the effects of relativity as they pertain to the GPS satellite’s measurements require two corrections to the perceived time of travel.

Lo and behold, it turns out that applying that double correction shaves 64 nanoseconds off the neutrinos’ travel time, according to van Elburg, “[t]hus bringing the apparent velocities of neutrinos back to a value not significantly different from the speed of light.”

Here is the paper

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Posted: 22 October 2011 08:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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kkwan - 22 October 2011 07:03 PM

Einstein refuted? Not really, according to:

From this article HERE

A new paper by Dutch researcher Ronald A.J. van Elburg lays out the case that the GPS satellite measuring the neutrinos’ movements was also moving relative to the CERN and OPERA facilities as it orbited the Earth. Briefly, van Elburg asserts that the effects of relativity as they pertain to the GPS satellite’s measurements require two corrections to the perceived time of travel.

Lo and behold, it turns out that applying that double correction shaves 64 nanoseconds off the neutrinos’ travel time, according to van Elburg, “[t]hus bringing the apparent velocities of neutrinos back to a value not significantly different from the speed of light.”

Here is the paper

Einstein vindicated once more!

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Posted: 22 October 2011 10:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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kkwan - 22 October 2011 07:03 PM

A new paper by Dutch researcher Ronald A.J. van Elburg lays out the case that the GPS satellite measuring the neutrinos’ movements was also moving relative to the CERN and OPERA facilities as it orbited the Earth. Briefly, van Elburg asserts that the effects of relativity as they pertain to the GPS satellite’s measurements require two corrections to the perceived time of travel.

Good find! But do not forget (from your link):

It’s too early to say whether that’s the final verdict on this story—the CERN scientists did claim to have accounted for such factors in their report.

Could the OPERA scientists have overseen this? Well, yes, what I heard about the experiment was that the research team was more or less forced to publish their results, as somebody was known to be ‘leaking’ about the presumed FTL speed. But they said themselves that they might have made some error, and wanted to evaluate their measurements before publishing them. But I must say, it is still funny that it is an outsider that must point to this.

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Posted: 18 November 2011 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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The jury is still out it seems.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-502223_162-57327392/2nd-test-affirms-faster-than-light-particles/

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