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Materials scientist explains Twin Towers collapse
Posted: 23 September 2011 05:56 AM   [ Ignore ]
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Twin Towers model challenges 9/11 conspiracies

When each jet cut its way into a building, it took with it parts of walls and ceilings, Simensen said. Steel bars in those walls would have gashed its fuel tanks, which would have caught fire.
With the plane positioned somewhere in the middle of the building, blanketed in debris and with no route for heat to escape, the temperature would have rapidly escalated, reaching 1,220 degrees Fahrenheit, the melting point of aluminum — of which there was 30 tons in each plane fuselage — within an hour. The molten aluminum would then have heated up further to between 1,470 and 1,560 F.

“Then molten aluminum becomes [as liquid as] water and has so much heat that it will flow through cracks in the floor and down to the next floor,” Simensen explained in an email. There was an automatic sprinkler system installed in each ceiling, and it was filled with water.

“When huge amount of molten aluminum gets in contact with water, a fierce exothermic reaction will take place, enormous amount of hydrogen is formed and the temperature is locally raised to 1,200 to 1,500 C,” or 2,200 to 2,700 F.

Chaos rapidly ensues: “A series of explosions will take place and a whole floor will be blown to pieces,” he wrote. “Then the top part of the building will fall on the bottom part, and the tower will collapse within seconds.” This is what Simensen believes happened in the two World Trade Center towers.

Read the article. Alcoa researchers introduced 30 kilograms of molten aluminum to 20 liters of water. The resulting explosion created a 30-meter diameter crater.There is no need to speculate about 9/11 being an inside job. Science explains how the buildings collapsed.

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Posted: 23 September 2011 07:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Interesting stuff but it won’t stop the lunatics. Nothing will. That’s how conspiracy theories work.

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Posted: 23 September 2011 07:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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True, but it will be interesting seeing the hoops conspiracy theorists jump through to avoid facing reality.

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Posted: 23 September 2011 09:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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DarronS - 23 September 2011 07:28 AM

True, but it will be interesting seeing the hoops conspiracy theorists jump through to avoid facing reality.

“Interesting” is a polite word.  smile

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Posted: 23 September 2011 09:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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With the plane positioned somewhere in the middle of the building, blanketed in debris and with no route for heat to escape, the temperature would have rapidly escalated, reaching 1,220 degrees Fahrenheit, the melting point of aluminum — of which there was 30 tons in each plane fuselage — within an hour. The molten aluminum would then have heated up further to between 1,470 and 1,560 F.

There were 10,000 gallons of kerosene, sometimes known as jet fuel.  Many sources say that 50% of that was lost in the initial explosive fireball.

So using the specific heat of aluminum why doesn’t he calculate the energy required to melt 30 tons of aluminum and see if the calculation makes any sense.  Just throwing out an idea is hardly a theory.  And if the plane is blanketed with debris doesn’t that make air flow more difficult?  How do you get the high temperatures without airflow?  Isn’t that why blacksmiths use bellows to INCREASE AIRFLOW?

Someone did the chemical energy and temperature calculations YEARS ago.

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/how-hot.htm

It is also curious that the NIST’s paint deformation and microscopic metallurgy tests never detected those temperatures.  But actually searching through the 10,000 page NCSTAR1 report is just SO BORING.

psik

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Posted: 23 September 2011 09:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Hoop #1: Reference a truther website and doubt the scientist.

Now it is time to sit back and watch psikey’s meltdown. Where’s that popcorn smiley when we need it?

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Posted: 24 September 2011 12:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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DarronS - 23 September 2011 09:39 PM

Hoop #1: Reference a truther website and doubt the scientist.

Now it is time to sit back and watch psikey’s meltdown. Where’s that popcorn smiley when we need it?

shut eye you were reading my mind!!

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Posted: 24 September 2011 04:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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DarronS - 23 September 2011 09:39 PM

Hoop #1: Reference a truther website and doubt the scientist.

Now it is time to sit back and watch psikey’s meltdown. Where’s that popcorn smiley when we need it?

popcorn.gif

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Posted: 24 September 2011 05:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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Well, that certainly works, but I was thinking of something simpler. Found it.

smiley-face-popcorn.gif

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Posted: 24 September 2011 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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DarronS - 23 September 2011 09:39 PM

Hoop #1: Reference a truther website and doubt the scientist.

Now it is time to sit back and watch psikey’s meltdown. Where’s that popcorn smiley when we need it?

Yeah, meltdown is right.

Typical physical properties for Jet A and Jet A-1

Open air burning temperatures   260-315 °C (500-599 °F)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

How many scientists have made fools of themselves with this 9/11 business.  Can’t demand such obvious information as the distributions of steel and concrete down a couple of skyscrapers.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread755776/pg1#pid12393793

How do publications purporting to be scientific publish stuff so DUMB?

And some people worshipt the word SCIENCE instead of actually thinking.

psik

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Posted: 24 September 2011 10:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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psikeyhackr - 24 September 2011 08:55 AM

Open air burning temperatures

Emphasis added. You didn’t even bother reading the part of the article I quoted, did you?

With the plane positioned somewhere in the middle of the building, blanketed in debris and with no route for heat to escape, the temperature would have rapidly escalated, reaching 1,220 degrees Fahrenheit, the melting point of aluminum…

The open-air burning temperature is irrelevant.

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Posted: 24 September 2011 03:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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DarronS - 24 September 2011 10:24 AM
psikeyhackr - 24 September 2011 08:55 AM

Open air burning temperatures

Emphasis added. You didn’t even bother reading the part of the article I quoted, did you?

With the plane positioned somewhere in the middle of the building, blanketed in debris and with no route for heat to escape, the temperature would have rapidly escalated, reaching 1,220 degrees Fahrenheit, the melting point of aluminum…

The open-air burning temperature is irrelevant.

Burning requires OXYGEN.  in a NORMAL FIRE the only source is the air.  How can it reach those temperatures without a good air supply.

It is not my fault that you are willing to BELIEVE those temperatures can be attained just to satisfy that silly theory.  The NIST already reported years ago that it found no evidence of temperatures that high.  So I only provided that open air burning temperature to show you how ridiculous that theory is.  But you don’t want to hear it.

You prefer the 9/11 Religion.

That article is a joke and not a very good one.

psik

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Posted: 24 September 2011 08:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Now let’s see - the author works for a highly respected research organisation has a higher degree in metallurgy and many years of relevant experience.  Against that we someone who looked up an irrelevant fact about the flash-point of jet fuel on wikipedia.

Now who I am I going to believe?  Tricky one…

I think the incompetence of governments is often over-looked.  Remember the absurd claims about WMDs?  I think if the dark forces of government that planned and executed the 9-11 disaster so well as to prevent even one single conspirator blowing the whistle would have been able to produce at least a barrel of nerve-gas, or something! 

Did the Americans want to go into Afghanistan and later Iraq to persue their national interest?  I think they did, and 9-11 gave them a pretext to do so.  But it is beyond reason to suppose that the US would go as far as that!  There would be cheaper ways to ‘justify’ a war.  And for another thing, the risk of ‘blow back’ would be simply too great.  What if their hand in it was ever revealed?  Would any president risk - even if the risk was small - being known to history as the architect of the greatest terrorist attack on his own people?

Runsfeldt was in the Pentagon when it was hit.. he must have had considerable confidence that things would go according to plan and he’d be safe!  But for exceptional actions on another aircraft it likely that either the white house or the capitol would have been hit too… surely someone in the admistration would have thought they were over-egging it a bit!

But against all that (and of course much more I can’t be bothered to catalogue) we have some people with no knowledge of buildings or combustion (apart from what you learn from a 2 minute google search) insist there must be a conspiracy.  I am quite aware that governments are capable of some pretty underhand and even irrational actions and they some times seem to serve no-ones interest but their own and that of their friends, but 9-11 a government conspiracy?  No, sorry. 

I have speculated that the motivation of conspiracy theorists is not so different from certain types of theist.  Some theists need their god as a crutch, or more accurately as a fixed point; something that anchors them against the sheer randomness and uncertainties of modern life.  Likewise conspiracy theorists don’t like the idea that ‘shit happens’.  They want things to happen as a part of a grand plan.  For theists, the plan is an ineffable, divine one.  For conspiracy fans the plan is evil plan, emanating from dark mysterious hidden forces, but it is still a plan and things don’t ‘just happen’.  Also like some theists, conspiracy nuts see them selves as ‘gnostics’, possessors of secret arcane knowledge that ordinary folk just don’t understand.  The ability of conspiracy nuts to hold onto their beliefs in the face of rational argument is also rather theistic!  One can also note that conspiracy fans can be quite evangelical about their beliefs at times!

The twin towers collapsed because of a conspiracy, but it was a conspiracy hatched in a Afghan cave, not the white house or Knesset.

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Posted: 24 September 2011 08:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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keithprosser2 - 24 September 2011 08:06 PM

Now let’s see - the author works for a highly respected research organisation has a higher degree in metallurgy and many years of relevant experience.  Against that we someone who looked up an irrelevant fact about the flash-point of jet fuel on wikipedia.

Now who I am I going to believe?  Tricky one…

Considering that I didn’t quote the flash point of jet fuel you have done a great job of demonstrating your quality of thought.

I quoted the open air burn temperature, something entirely different.

So you admit that you can’t think for yourself about a grade school physics problem and need what you regard as AUTHORITY to tell you what to think.  But this is a TEN YEAR old problem and your expert can’t tell you and did not discuss the distribution of steel and concrete down the building.  So that does not come up in his THEORY.

This THEORY is about 30 tonnes of molten aluminum and water in the sprinkler system.  Yet if you watch videos of the destruction of the towers you see levels of the buildings destroyed downward in sequence like clockwork.  But you think water coming out of sprinkler pipes hitting molten aluminum can produce sequential events that perfectly in two different buildings.

ROFLMAO

Yeah, after ten years the psychology of 9/11 is even more peculiar than 9/11.

psik

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Posted: 24 September 2011 08:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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So, psikey, after 10 years, what is your alternative theory? What made the buildings collapse? smiley-party0029.gif

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Posted: 24 September 2011 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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On the issue of the value of trusting authority, I take it you did measure the open air temperature of burning jet-fuel yourself, didn’t you?  You wouldn’t be taking someone else’s word for it, would you?

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