traveler - 02 October 2011 11:01 AM

dougsmith - 02 October 2011 10:13 AM

Fluoridated water is one of the great advances of modern civilization.

Only if you like your teeth! 

True! 

traveler - 02 October 2011 11:01 AM

dougsmith - 02 October 2011 10:13 AM

Fluoridated water is one of the great advances of modern civilization.

Only if you like your teeth! 

...and if you like food other than baby food!
Missmac EVERYTHING is made of chemicals, including water, air, and ALL the foods you eat and everything you drink. YOU are made up of chemicals. ‘Chemicals’ is a meaningless word in the sense you are using it.

As a chemist I always smile when non-chemists get sucked in by the fairytales that claim to be “chemicals”. 

First, fluoride (as well as a variety of other mineral components) is a natural ingredient in much of the world’s water supply if it’s from wells.  The problem is that rain is distilled water that contains no minerals so people who live in areas where most of their water supply is from rain are deficient in fluoride (and at times other minerals). 

In fact, fluoride toothpaste is less efficient in introducing it into dental enamel, mostly just on the surface.  It’s far better to be able to allow the child’s body to add it as a part of the forming teeth. 

Only anecdotal, but my parents and I growing up in New England, with very soft water, all had porous teeth.  My parents lost theirs early, and I’m loaded with fillings, bridges, and implants.  My daughter, now 56, has had fluoride from the local water and her tooth paste since she was a child, and she has excellent teeth, and no other health problems.  She also got all the available vaccinations.

The stories of “many deaths” associated with immunizations are just silly.  Impartial surveys have shown over and over that this just is not true.

Occam

George - 02 October 2011 08:47 AM

Drinking bottled water, which is practically sterile water, is not a good idea. It is free of any minerals and probably more harmful to you than the little fluoride in our tap water. BTW, I don’t think you really mean it when you say our water supply should be chemical free. You should probably research the whole topic with a little more objectivity.

I drink re-mineralized water purified by the reverse-osmosis method. And if it’s not a mineral that could be found in natural water springs/ rivers/ icebergs, then I dont think they should add it to the water either.

Fluoride and Chlorine

Here’s some scary shit to also take in to consideration:

Pharmaceuticals In Our Water Supplies

Are “Drugged Waters” a Water Quality Threat?

Developed to promote human health and well being, certain pharmaceuticals are now attracting attention as a potentially new class of water pollutants. Such drugs as antibiotics, anti-depressants, birth control pills, seizure medication, cancer treatments, pain killers, tranquilizers and cholesterol-lowering compounds have been detected in varied water sources.

Where do they come from? Pharmaceutical industries, hospitals and other medical facilities are obvious sources, but households also contribute a significant share. People often dispose of unused medicines by flushing them down toilets, and human excreta can contain varied incompletely metabolized medicines. These drugs can pass intact through conventional sewage treatment facilities, into waterways, lakes and even aquifers. Further, discarded pharmaceuticals often end up at dumps and land fills, posing a threat to underlying groundwater.

To some scientists the release of antibiotics into waterways is particularly worrisome. They fear the release may result in disease-causing bacteria to become immune to treatment and that drug-resistant diseases will develop.

I think everyone should have access to clean water that has been minimally processed (ie add chlorine, add fluoride) there are other methods of water filtration and purification that dont include continuously dumping in toxic chemicals. I think everyone should have access to clean water that has been minimally processed (ie add chlorine, add fluoride) there are other methods of water filtration and purification that dont include continuously dumping in toxic chemicals.

CHLORINE???  MM do you know that a good part of your blood and every living animal’s blood contains quite a bit of chlorine?  We are all loaded with salt, probably because we evolved from creatures that lived in the oceans.  And salt is sodium chloride.  While I’d prefer that we used the Russian system with ozone treatment because I prefer the taste of the water, there’s nothing wrong with chlorination for killing water borne bugs (that are responsible for a good part of the diseases in areas where the water is not treated).  As soon is it mixes with our food, especially tiny amounts of vitamin C, it’s reduced from HOCl to Cl-.  Oh, and a good part of our “natural” digestive fluids in our stomachs is hydrochloric acid. 

Occam

Ok - well I guess there are 2 topics I disagree with most of you on

I support the use of fluoride when applied topically, toothpaste or enamel treatments - however I dont wish to ingest it and think that my city should stop adding it to the public water supply - as there are plenty of sources to get fluoride without having to add it to our main water supply without the consent of a majority of the people voting on it.

Also, dont even get me started on vaccines - I have seen plenty enough to support my stance against them. 1 - a girlfriend of mine was urged to get the guardisil vaccine to protect her from 4 of the 100 known strains of HPV (the strains in the vaccine are the ones known to sometimes develop in to cervical caner) I went with her to the clinic and she collapsed on her way out of the waiting room after receiving the vaccine. Then an even bigger shock came when she started to develop weird symptoms, so she went to her gyno and she told her that she had genital warts! When her 2 more previous pap tests showed no sign of the STI. After eliminating all possible variables - she concluded that she developed the STI shortly after getting the vaccine.

Also, another friend of mine who gets his annual flu shot religiously - gets sick more times per year than myself and other friends of ours comparable in age, diet, exercise etc…..

The human body is quite the wonder - and if left to perform its natural functions without injecting a catalyst - we will develop antibodies to baterial and viral attacks - and strengthen our immunity to future attacks.

Another bit of anecdotal evidence.  I often had nasty bouts of the flu every year when I was a kid and as an adult.  Then, about 40 years ago when flu shots first became available I got my first one, and have done so every year since then.  And I haven’t had the flu in 40 years.  Even my frequency of plain colds went way, way down since then.

Occam

You know what’s worse than vaccines? Shoes! They give me horrible headaches. Every time I wake up wearing shoes I feel like my head is going to explode. 

I know, George, it’s all that damned fluorinated wine that you drank before you passed out. 

Occam

I get flu shots yearly and I’ve never had any problem with them.

mid atlantic - 02 October 2011 04:04 PM

I get flu shots yearly and I’ve never had any problem with them.

Of course you don’t. The vaccines are made from an inactivated virus and unless one is allergic to eggs, there is no reason why anyone should get sick from them.

I usually get very upset at people who spread nonsense about flu shots, but for some reason I am completely incapable of getting upset at missmac. 

I completely understand that you can’t get the flu from taking a flu shot.

But in the Air Force, I had to get the flu shot every year. The day after the shot - every year - I was in bed with the flu and it lasted for about 3 days.
I also know that some people who have bad reactions from flu shots are able to get half-dose flu shots. My mind says I should get the shots, but my experience keeps me away from them. Luckily, I’m really healthy.

Unfortunately, traveler, there are people around you who are not healthy and why we may want to consider preventing ourselves from getting them sick. There is absolutely no way a flu shot will give you the flu.

George - 02 October 2011 04:47 PM

Unfortunately, traveler, there are people around you who are not healthy and why we may want to consider preventing ourselves from getting them sick. There is absolutely no way a flu shot will give you the flu.

Yeah, I know. Most years I don’t get the flu so I’m not making anyone sick, but I get what you’re saying. Guess I’ll try again and see what happens.

missmac - 02 October 2011 08:08 AM

Oh man, Ok then Im going to point you here firts: http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/1221254309/ID=14972321

On the fluoride issue: the point is this - fluoride is classified as an active ingredient and drug - therefore adding it to a city’s water supply is involuntarily drugging the population that doesn’t wish to consume it. Wish so many easy and affordable ways to get fluoride (toothpaste, rinses) we should certainly have the option to include it or not, but still have an water supply free from toxins if we so choose. We are not given ac choice. I have been drinking bottled water, that has 0 fluoride PPM - and let me tell you it raises expenses a bit. And to those who argue that some people can afford toothpaste - I call bullshit, it’s much more expensive for me to buy fluoride free water than to buy toothpaste once every 3 months or so.

And the last time I checked - water is essential to human life and function - no one will die if they dont get fluoride. So let’s keep our water supply chemical free - and let people poison themselfs a-la-carte at their own free will.

Oh OK then um… Does that mean you don’t want even the minute amount of chlorine they put into tap water?  You do know that if our water were totally chemical free, bacteria and other microscopic lifeforms would grow, causing our tap water to be undrinkable.  Not only that you could end up drinking someone’s waste.