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One more reason to think twice before taking supplements
Posted: 22 October 2011 09:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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One has to wonder why it is that people conflate and confuse “natural” with safe and effective.

Cyanide is natural and very effective, but I would hardly call it safe.

Of course, it helps to know that “Natural” has been turned into one helluva sales pitch!

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Posted: 29 November 2011 10:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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lively life - 29 November 2011 10:24 AM

There must be good compatibility between the demands of the user and also the benefits of the supplements.
By this we can easily get the good results.

OK, here we go. What benefits? Where is your documentation? How do you define compatibility? What evidence do you have that your methods of ensuring ‘compatibility’ are effective and what is the scientific basis for ‘compatibility’? In other words what biological parameters do you look at and how do they allow you to determine if a treatment is compatible? Please use accepted of biology and chemistry to support your claims.

Please leave out all anecdotal examples or claims of experience. These are not scientific evidence. I’m guessing you don’t have legitimate answers to most or any of these questions.

[ Edited: 29 November 2011 10:51 AM by macgyver ]
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Posted: 29 November 2011 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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I smell SPAM. Lively life has posted multiple nearly contentless and gramatically challenged posts within a few minutes.

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Posted: 29 November 2011 11:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Strange that there’s no links, though. Maybe troll

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Posted: 29 November 2011 11:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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domokato - 29 November 2011 11:08 AM

Strange that there’s no links, though. Maybe troll

It’s there now, the link doesn’t appear straight away.

Stephen

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Posted: 29 November 2011 11:40 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Where do you see a link, Stephen?

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Posted: 29 November 2011 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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mckenzievmd - 29 November 2011 11:40 AM

Where do you see a link, Stephen?

Oops, I thought the signature was a link.

Stephen

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Posted: 29 November 2011 12:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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The link (“lively life”) is not linked, but I would still consider it a spam. Mr. Gorbachev, take down this spam!

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Posted: 29 November 2011 12:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Well. . .  just a bit more rope.

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Posted: 29 November 2011 01:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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I remain a spam agnostic until given proof of spam. LOL

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Posted: 29 November 2011 02:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Are you saying that I’m a spam theist because I want to crucify them all, even without a trial?  vampire

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Posted: 25 December 2011 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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peterson121 - 25 December 2011 07:48 AM

Well, I’ve been taking supplements for brain.

Are you sure that’s smart?  LOL

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Posted: 25 December 2011 11:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Apparently Doug had proof of spam with peterson121.  smile

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Posted: 27 December 2011 06:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Sidestepping the spam (and thereby improving my arteries, both internal and virtual), I’m responding to the first posts in this thread.

Specifically, scientific evidence regularly points to the dubious value of treating prescription drugs as sacrosanct. Medical science, via 800 pound gorilla pharmaceudical companies, kill thousands of patients annually.  Sources? Many, but here’s one - http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=prescription-drug-deaths.

Individuals must take responsibility for their own health, and research all options/ remedies thoroughly. Personally, I prefer herbal remedies - which I have studied for over 40 years. These personally prepared remedies are far more efficacious than prescription drugs. I use only whole herbs, often homegrown and harvested myself, on an as-need basis. This works for me, with far fewer side effects than pharmacological products. Additionally, as “American health care” is an oxymoron for many (including myself - I have none, nor can I afford it), these carefully selected and researched remedies are 1) far more economical, 2) with fewer unpleasant side effects, 3) rarely risk drug interactions (although this always must be researched and taken into account, still it’s rare with most herbs), 4) usually as effective, or more so, than those provided with a prescription by the pharmacist.

Accordingly, I differ with the strident tone and rigid view that conventional (American Medical Assn style) is the only viable, or necessarily the best, strategy for optimal health for everyone.

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Posted: 27 December 2011 07:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Medical science, via 800 pound gorilla pharmaceudical companies, kill thousands of patients annually.

An irrelevant strawman argument when raised in the context of claims for the safety and efficacy of supplemetns and herbs. Conventional medicine saves tens of millions of lives, so while all therapy is a balance of risks against benefits, and some people will be harmed by any therapy that has any actual physiological effects, science-based medicine has improved the length and quality of human life in a way dramatically greater than any othe approach ever tried. And even if one could somehow demonstrate that it did more harm than good, that has nothing to do with the safety and effectiveness of alternatives.

Individuals must take responsibility for their own health, and research all options/ remedies thoroughly.

People should certainly be informed and responsible for their own health. But there is a common misconception that an hour on the internet makes one’s knowledge the equal of a scientist or doctor who has devoted years of sudy and practice to understanding medicine. Most of the theories concocted in opposition to the principles of mainstream medicine and in support of alterative approaches are manifestly false, and the internet is a wellspring of questionable information and outright nonsense. So being informed and being competant to reject the basic tenets of scientific medicine are two different things.

These personally prepared remedies are far more efficacious than prescription drugs…This works for me, with far fewer side effects than pharmacological products.


This is an opinion, and without controlled scientific evaluation to support it, it amounts to no more than a claim based on faith. Plenty of people also claimed to have been healed by prayer. That doesn’t mean they have been. Side effects to herbs and supplements are well-documented (e.g. HERE), which is actually a reason to think they might potentially be real medicines. Anything that has an effect on a system as complicated as the physiology of a living organism will have unintended as well as desired effects. Homeopathy is free of side-effects because it is free of effects. Herbs often have actual effects, and as a result can be harmful. But there is zero evidence of any quality beyond testimonial and faith to show that herbal remedies are safer or more effective than conventional drugs.

A lesson on why our personal trial and error and experiences, as well as folk tradition, are unreliable guides to the safety and efficacy of medical therapies is beyond the scope of a forum post like this. There are plenty of resources on the subject I can point you towards But the bottom line is that scientific evaluation is far more effective in deciding which treatments work and which don’t than anything else, and it has led to the successes of modern healthcare which are so extensive as to be nearly invisible and often taken for granted a mere few generations after they were first recieved as miracles (vaccination, antibiotics, aseptic technique, anesthesia, rapid and effective trauma care, and so many others). Whatever the failings of our health care delivery system, and they are many, there is no justification beyond ignorance for suggesting that homespun alternatives are the better choice.

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