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Homosexuality
Posted: 07 November 2011 07:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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Thank you all who have commented so far. I do appreciate all the different insight.

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Posted: 07 November 2011 09:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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deros - 07 November 2011 03:47 PM
FinallyDecided - 06 November 2011 06:48 AM

As a humanist, how do you view homosexuality? Especially when one tries to argue that the natural desire is for humans to procreate and ensure their genes are passed on? Even when any religious influence is removed from the equation, how is the homosexual to feel “normal,” biologically? For example, in reading an anatomy and physiology book, the author takes a stance that the reproductive organs exist for the sole purpose of, well, reproducing. How is the homosexual to reconcile this?

As a gay man, I try my best to feel one with mainstream society; however, even in secular society, I still feel the norm is for traditional family. Do humanist’s generally view the same sex couple and family just as valid? I have equated and justified same sex activity, that which does not have any potential to procreate, as similiar to heterosexual activity that also has no potential of procreating (i.e. oral sex, sex using a method of birth control) to be of a similar concept. After all, most of society does not devalue the heterosexual couple that participates in sexual activity that has no chance of procreating (i.e. when they habitually use a method of birth control or engage in a sex act that does not procreate). Should same sex sexual activity be viewed any differently, given that neither (in the aforementioned situation) has the intention of procreating? Do you all agree with my reasoning? Any further insight or views would be appreciated.

I do believe that procreation was the original reason why Mother Nature gave us sexual drive but the human brain and its ability to reason has evolved far from that primitive animal state.  Yes we are still animals, but far advanced from our ancient ancestors so developing new ideas about sex, sexuality and almost anything else should be considered perfectly normal today.
For what its worth, I could care less about anyone’s sexual preferences.

  I’m not so sure that we developed “new ideas about sex and sexuality” as you say, all of the practices and configurations of sex have probably been happening since the beginning of ACMH;  looking at ancient societies’ artwork gives me the impression that it’s all been done before.  grin

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Posted: 07 November 2011 09:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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There have been a few gay threads on this forum FinallyDecided, its an important topic.  smile

Will there ever be a time when we promte couples who don’t procreate as a good thing, I mean since its just the seven billion of us here then what more does it take?

I’ve leaned towards the word homosexual because it sounds more clean and clinical in my ears, I lean towards gay because its always been a positive and seems like a friendly word in my ears.

As a Humanist I look to humanity for the definition of humanity, and I see gays in every society in history, so I see them as a normal part of humanity.  In the whole animal kingdom heterosexual monogamy is rare, and so not the norm, everything else is more normal.  And the gays have been victimized by the few gay-bashers, and the many anti-gays.  The anti-gays don’t deserve to get away with their behaviors.  I think that the male archetype was created by some narrow-minded idiots, and look at men realistically instead, men define who men are, men are not one-size-fits all, they have a variety of traits, and gay is one of them.  The women define themselves and gay is one of their traits too.  I think it takes bravery and intelligence to speak the plain truth about the variety of human traits, and I challenge all of you to do that.  smile

If the heteros didn’t choose their sexual orientation, then obviously the gays didn’t either!

The gays do lots of good things, I’ve seen lots of positive changes in society credited to the gays, and the famous celebrity gays do good works too.  I think the gay celebrities are better behaved than the heteros. 

I’m a Humanist and hetero.  I grew up in NYC in the years after the Stonewall police raids (lets identify who really started it), and in the years after that I saw the gays become more and out-of-the-closet, with some distinguishing themselves with some flamboyant behaviors, but many just acting as ordinary as anyone else except when, on occasion, they’d hold someone of the same sex.  Gay Pride grew nationally, and the parade continues on Christopher Street, so they are still here.  smile

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Posted: 07 November 2011 10:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Wow. I had forgotten about the Stonewall Riots. I was 14 years old when that occurred, and it was probably the event that made me aware of homosexuals. I still cannot understand the bigotry people harbor against other people simply because of their sexual orientation. Why the hell should I care about someone’s sexual preference unless I am involved in that person’s sex life?

I’m glad you found us FD. Please stick around and contribute to the discussions.

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Posted: 08 November 2011 03:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Humanist_B4_Atheist - 07 November 2011 03:51 PM
deros - 07 November 2011 03:47 PM

I do believe that procreation was the original reason why Mother Nature gave us sexual drive.

If it were the case, shouldn’t we be having sex only one day per women’s cycle, i.e. when she’s fertile/ovulating?

I was referring to why mother nature created sexual drive in all creatures.  That was many millions if not billions of years ago, long before anything remotely resembling humans came into being.  My post suggested that humans have evolved beyond that original primitive drive thus supporting your case but you chose only one line for a response.

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Posted: 08 November 2011 04:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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A man may ejaculate at the moment of death, in a final attempt to spread his seed. This is a hardwired function. When you place a flower under stress it will begin to produce seed and bloom.
Thus the survival instinct may be unrelated to the act of sex , except for convenience and survival rate. What is solitary masturbation (in many animals) all about?  Certainly not for procreation. It just releases endorphins which make you feel good and may even have a beneficial effect on the general health of the individual.

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Posted: 08 November 2011 06:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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Write4U - 08 November 2011 04:37 AM

A man may ejaculate at the moment of death, in a final attempt to spread his seed. This is a hardwired function. When you place a flower under stress it will begin to produce seed and bloom.
Thus the survival instinct may be unrelated to the act of sex , except for convenience and survival rate. What is solitary masturbation (in many animals) all about?  Certainly not for procreation. It just releases endorphins which make you feel good and may even have a beneficial effect on the general health of the individual.

See? Death isn’t all bad.  LOL

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Posted: 08 November 2011 09:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Psychiatry has added and removed gay from their DSM, when will they add anti-gay to the DSM?  Are they about following the facts, and making people’s psychology healthy, or are they just about making people dependent on Prozac and making the Lilly company rich?

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Posted: 08 November 2011 11:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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jump_in_the_pit - 08 November 2011 09:58 AM

Psychiatry has added and removed gay from their DSM, when will they add anti-gay to the DSM?  Are they about following the facts, and making people’s psychology healthy, or are they just about making people dependent on Prozac and making the Lilly company rich?

Nah, fluoxetine is generic. But I like the anti-gay addition to DSM, perhaps as a subcategory under xenophobia.

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Posted: 08 November 2011 12:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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Quoting Write4U:

A man may ejaculate at the moment of death, in a final attempt to spread his seed. This is a hardwired function.

  I understand that as one dies one also often defecates and urinates.  What is this a final attempt of, W4U?  LOL

Occam

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Posted: 08 November 2011 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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A man may ejaculate at the moment of death, in a final attempt to spread his seed. This is a hardwired function.

Traveler
See? Death isn’t all bad.

 

Occam
I understand that as one dies one also often defecates and urinates.  What is this a final attempt of, W4U? 

God’s last little reminder of the evils of ejaculation without procreation.  Always the spoiler….. cheese

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Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

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Posted: 08 November 2011 02:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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DarronS - 07 November 2011 10:00 PM

Wow. I had forgotten about the Stonewall Riots.

I’ve seen the gays bring up Stonewall often when they’re own members get worked up in protest, they use it as a warning about how badly the protests can go, and that’s seems like a big part of the reason why they’ve been so polite and patient since 1969.  Instead now-a-days, they make a very colorful and fun parade.  That’s much better.  smile

I don’t think that the police stopped with Stonewall in 1969, that was before my time, but when I was young I do remember hearing about police raiding bars down in Greenwich Village (where the Stonewall bar, and where many gay NYer’s lived at the time), the reasons reported were charges like solicitation and more than two people convening for immoral acts, totally trumped up charges, it was totally anti-gay.

I can’t verify that the Mafia owns the bar and pays off the police for having no liquor license as the Wiki page says, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised, the Mafia and “NYC’s Finest” do that sort of thing..

Now there are Pride festivals all over, and I think they and the country should be very proud of them turning a bad history into something so good and happy, a worldwide movement.  smile  This is a very important part of civil rights history.

[ Edited: 08 November 2011 07:14 PM by jump_in_the_pit ]
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Posted: 08 November 2011 08:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Write4U - 08 November 2011 04:37 AM

A man may ejaculate at the moment of death, in a final attempt to spread his seed. This is a hardwired function. When you place a flower under stress it will begin to produce seed and bloom.
Thus the survival instinct may be unrelated to the act of sex , except for convenience and survival rate. What is solitary masturbation (in many animals) all about?  Certainly not for procreation. It just releases endorphins which make you feel good and may even have a beneficial effect on the general health of the individual.

Auto-erotic asphyxiation?

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Posted: 08 November 2011 08:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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jump_in_the_pit - 08 November 2011 02:02 PM
DarronS - 07 November 2011 10:00 PM

Wow. I had forgotten about the Stonewall Riots.

I’ve seen the gays bring up Stonewall often when they’re own members get worked up in protest, they use it as a warning about how badly the protests can go, and that’s seems like a big part of the reason why they’ve been so polite and patient since 1969.  Instead now-a-days, they make a very colorful and fun parade.  That’s much better.  smile

I don’t think that the police stopped with Stonewall in 1969, that was before my time, but when I was young I do remember hearing about police raiding bars down in Greenwich Village (where the Stonewall bar, and where many gay NYer’s lived at the time), the reasons reported were charges like solicitation and more than two people convening for immoral acts, totally trumped up charges, it was totally anti-gay.

I can’t verify that the Mafia owns the bar and pays off the police for having no liquor license as the Wiki page says, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised, the Mafia and “NYC’s Finest” do that sort of thing..

Now there are Pride festivals all over, and I think they and the country should be very proud of them turning a bad history into something so good and happy, a worldwide movement.  smile  This is a very important part of civil rights history.

  During the early years of punk in NYC, there were a lot of unadvertised gay clubs in the bowery area where CBGB’S was located; in fact many of the patrons of CBGB’S were drag queens and gay prostitutes who spilled over just looking for a new hangout.  The police didn’t bother with raids much, because the bowery was a skid row area back then and nobody really cared about it.  Supposedly, Deedee Ramone was turning gay tricks to feed his herion addiction, and Lou Reed could sometimes be spotted at the transvestite clubs; these are things I’ve read - no idea if its true or not.

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Posted: 09 November 2011 11:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Dee Dee Ramone was playing with his wife Barbara Ramone in the “Remains”, the last time I saw him, around 2005.  So he is probably still in music.  I don’t know anything about the gay prostitutes, or the drag, it sounds like the NY Dolls to me.  I didn’t see any of that when I first visited CBGB’s in the late 1980’s, I just saw a dilapidated neighborhood, $4 Budweisers, people who liked music, and rock ‘n’ roll.

Joey Ramone Place

[ Edited: 09 November 2011 11:59 AM by jump_in_the_pit ]
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