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Homosexuality
Posted: 11 December 2012 08:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 166 ]
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This is an interesting thread.  I am often confused when a subject as personal as Homosexuality can draw so many diverse opinons.  On other sites, the bible is brought into the debate to supposedly solve the mystery of gays in general.  Thankfully CFI has no respect for the opinions of the New Testament and in some cases the Old. 

In my world that flits around grand opera, there is no reference to gays but Wagner is quite open to incest.  His music that surrounds a drug filled Tristan who finds his lover also under the influence of “Ecstasy” or the equivalent drug of the time.  The music itself carries the actions that follow.  I cannot think of a single opera that would have two men doing anything to that music.  Tristan and Isolda will never be performed with Tristan and Eric. 

Since our government has allowed the State of Washington to marry two men, I watched Sunday’s MSNBC program where Dan Savage announced this he and his long time partner married that same Sunday.  It was the 10th aniversary of their partnership.  Their adopted son was also present with their own parents in attendance.  Dan announced that he wrote a book about this relationship and I ordered a copy.  I will review it here if I learn anything new about Gays in America.  I would love to see this relationship be as common as a Christian marrying a Jew.

[ Edited: 11 December 2012 08:21 AM by Sandy Price ]
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Posted: 11 December 2012 11:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 167 ]
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As seems to be the case, Scott, you apparently didn’t read my post carefully prior to writing your response.  If you check, you’ll see that I said, “I think” which clearly indicates it’s my opinion and has nothing to do with an insult by anyone.  Second, I certainly did NOT claim homosexuality was genetic.  I suggested that it may have had something to do with the person’s in-womb or early childhood environment.  Third, I merely described my experience; I certainly wasn’t stating that a generalization was required or even indicated.

Occam

[ Edited: 11 December 2012 11:10 AM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 11 December 2012 12:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 168 ]
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Thanks, Occam, I wasn’t sure what you meant. I wouldn’t have been insulted personally if you had though. I was just trying to find clarity.

I think, at least, that for the most part, everyone here agrees that prejudices and discrimination of any sort against people’s sexual orientation is absurd. I am just happy to actually see that same-sex couples don’t have to be afraid anymore of holding hands in public around my community. Our cultural acceptance still needs a lot of adjustments but we’re heading in the right direction, I think.

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Posted: 11 December 2012 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 169 ]
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I have had a question for years as to whether anyone has any information on whether there is a history of gays running in any family?  In many generations ago my family had a gay man who married a cousin who produced a young child who became a gay adult.  That gay child was my age and we became close friends.  My generation within the family was enormous.  His parents had no more children and it came out that the marriage had been arranged as an attempt to hide the fact that his father was gay.  It was not uniusual at that time for close family members to marry.  Mormons are very careful about their blood lines as the Temple in Salt Lake City is loaded with many members of my clan.  I refused to be baptized so I stopped my branch of the family. 

My grandmother’s sister had a fabulous son who had caught my fancy when I first discovered what boys were.  I was secretly in love with him for years but never pushed a relationship due to our blood relationship.  Dan had never married and later on, he showed up at my door step and explained that he too felt a connection with me.  He also admitted that his life had been lived with another man and they were, infact gay.  I have to admit that we had a fabulous relationship and the sex was wonderful.  This went on for many years and I have never known anything like it. My daughter had spent a school term in France and was coming home in a couple of weeks.  Dan also confessed that he had a son in his late 20s who was arriving for a visit.  My older girl was visiting her father and I had the whole upstairs available with a lot of beds so we all moved in for a couple of weeks.  My daughter told me she was perfectly safe as the son was gay.  I began to wonder if there were any men who were not gay in my life. 

My mother’s 4th and last husband was a prop designer from the studios and very gay.  My kids called him their fairy godfather.  I worked full time and had little time to contemplate the lifestyle of the Price family.  I designed and made costumes for a Shakespearean theater and there was nary a straight man for miles around. 

If this information is too honest for this forum, please delete it and I will be more careful in the future.  I figure this place might be a place where we can be honest considering none of us will ever meet.

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Posted: 11 December 2012 11:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 170 ]
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Sandy, your life was pretty well involved with the entertainment industry, and I think there are a number of reasons gay, bisexual, and sexually open people may be attracted to it.  Since there are supposed to be about 10% gays in the general population, if there was a significant migration I’d guess that as many as half the people there would be open to same sex enjoyments, if not relationships.  I’m quite certain that a majority of the general population is heterosexual without any motivation to try the other side, however, it makes sense that you would have seen a significantly different ratio. 

As I’ve said before, the males of our species almost all suffer from one or another degree of testosterone toxicity.  It just depends on each as to the limits of what they will copulate with. 

Occam

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Posted: 12 December 2012 01:14 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 171 ]
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Sandy Price - 11 December 2012 01:49 PM

I have had a question for years as to whether anyone has any information on whether there is a history of gays running in any family?  In many generations ago my family had a gay man who married a cousin who produced a young child who became a gay adult.  That gay child was my age and we became close friends.  My generation within the family was enormous.  His parents had no more children and it came out that the marriage had been arranged as an attempt to hide the fact that his father was gay.  It was not uniusual at that time for close family members to marry.  Mormons are very careful about their blood lines as the Temple in Salt Lake City is loaded with many members of my clan.  I refused to be baptized so I stopped my branch of the family. 

My grandmother’s sister had a fabulous son who had caught my fancy when I first discovered what boys were.  I was secretly in love with him for years but never pushed a relationship due to our blood relationship.  Dan had never married and later on, he showed up at my door step and explained that he too felt a connection with me.  He also admitted that his life had been lived with another man and they were, infact gay.  I have to admit that we had a fabulous relationship and the sex was wonderful.  This went on for many years and I have never known anything like it. My daughter had spent a school term in France and was coming home in a couple of weeks.  Dan also confessed that he had a son in his late 20s who was arriving for a visit.  My older girl was visiting her father and I had the whole upstairs available with a lot of beds so we all moved in for a couple of weeks.  My daughter told me she was perfectly safe as the son was gay.  I began to wonder if there were any men who were not gay in my life. 

My mother’s 4th and last husband was a prop designer from the studios and very gay.  My kids called him their fairy godfather.  I worked full time and had little time to contemplate the lifestyle of the Price family.  I designed and made costumes for a Shakespearean theater and there was nary a straight man for miles around. 

If this information is too honest for this forum, please delete it and I will be more careful in the future.  I figure this place might be a place where we can be honest considering none of us will ever meet.


 The vast majority of gay people come from two heterosexual parents.  I know of several gay people who have had biological
children.  None of the children i know who have reached adulthood show any signs of being gay. This tells me that there is probably no genetic reason for homosexuality.  There could be brain patterns or conditions that might account for it but they are probably determined by one’s environment.

 

 

 

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Posted: 12 December 2012 07:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 172 ]
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I tend to look at American humans as having been born in a nation of free humans.  I don’t care if the homosexual community is limited to a dozen people total.  They are entitled to the same individual freedoms as any one of us.  We fought a Civil war to free people of color and apparently we will need another war to free gays. 

I wandered over the area of Secular Humanists in hopes all members would stand up for all individual humans. 

For 2000 plus years gays have been persecuted because they do not breed as a family.  The majority of Gods on this planet insist on sex producing more humans.  This does not make it rational or even desirable. 

Last night I flipped over to Bill O’Reilly who was literally on the war path demanding that Christians follow their Ministers in a war against homosexuals.  He was screaming into the camera for a street fight for Jesus Christ.  According to O’Reilly’s brand of Christians, they must not allow Gays to marry with a fear they might use some poor woman for their efforts at making a family. 

My father’s family were Protestants and thrown out of Ireland.  My mother’s family were Catholics and run out of England.  They landed in America with every promise of complete freedom.  The law of averages would have found a few gays after a number of generations of births.  Are these children supposed to pretend they are not gay and simply adopt the actions of the parents?  This is what the religious people do, not the Secular Humanists!!! 

Occam, yes indeed, my family on both sides, migrated to the west coast where people attracted to the arts gathered.  I spent a dozen years in a very Christian Arizona and could not get out of their fast enough.  I thought it was me who was so out of step with the culture that I tried to follow the culture of fear of the afterlife.  They tried to shoot my black cat claiming she was the spawn of Satan.  They even shot at my yellow lab to show they were not kidding.  My arthritis was so bad, they scheduled my knees and hips had to be replaced and I was to stay put under the care of a good ortho surgeon, which I did.  I had a complication and was in a wheel chair for many months but the moment I was upright I packed up and returned to California. 

I do not understand people who judge each other by where or with whom they sleep.  I was led to believe that Secular Humanists organize for the development of a Secular America and all the feedoms that come with this new culture.  I was led to believe through my conversation with Eddie Tabash that CFI was the group who worked for these individual freedoms that would release all of us from the monster God that has taken over the lives of the majority of Americans. 

If CFI is not the place for the development of individual freedoms, whare is this place?

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Posted: 12 December 2012 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 173 ]
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There is a group of scientists claiming that homosexuality isn’t genetic.  Rather, it’s caused by epigenetics, various external factors that influence your genes and development while you’re still in the womb.  Stuff like what drugs your mom takes, what she eats, and the like.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 09:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 174 ]
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This saddens me that people would actually work through science to stop the development of our gay community. What if they could stop the breeding of homosexuals and many of our poets, painters, composers, designers and all contributors of operas, movies, and those who look to the beauty found in many people. 

After years of organized religion trying to destroy the people behind our music, art and literature, what kind of world would we represent.  Occam believes that living in an area where gays tend to live and work, makes us automatically promiscuous.  Well, my friend, I have been celebate for 30 years; how about you?

I wanted to experience the emotions that I found from the art of literature, the colors of paintings, the emotions of opera where I learned to cry in saddness and joy.  I wanted to fall in love more than once and experience what I saw on the stage in my work with the theater. 

I wanted to know what drove the music that came out of one of our more popular classical composers.  I wanted to know more about Oscar Wilde and the poets of his world.  At the time, I was not even aware that many of these folks were gay. 

So now I learn that science will take apart the beautiful minds of gay men and fix them. Make them more acceptable to the humans on earth.  Remove the beauty of their poetry and get them tuned on to Rap!  Remove their melodies and hand them a drum.  Erase their glorious curvature in movement and bring on the robot dance.

Oy.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 09:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 175 ]
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You can’t blame science, Sandy.  Science is just a tool.  Nothing more.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 176 ]
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Apparently female scientists are working on correcting your lack of testosterone and now have pills and massage oil to bring you up to their standards…. It’s just a tool.  It might even lower your I.Q.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 12:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 177 ]
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Sandy Price - 12 December 2012 10:12 AM

Apparently female scientists are working on correcting your lack of testosterone and now have pills and massage oil to bring you up to their standards…. It’s just a tool.  It might even lower your I.Q.

True, but a dose of testosterone will not affect a person’s orientation.  If you give testosterobe to a heterosexual or a homosexual he or she may become more interested in sex but their choice of partner will not change.  It’s been shown that normal homosexual and heterosexual humans produce the same amounts of hormones. Give a male estrogen and he may exhibit physical female charasteristics but it won’t affect his orientation. The same goes for females on testosterone.  They may exhibit male characteristics, but it won’t affect their orientation.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 01:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 178 ]
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I was teasing Dead Monky…I have no intentions of adding or subtracting anything from anyone.  This trying to “straighten” gay men is all over the internet and it annioys me.  I wish the energy would be onto educating people on how to accept everyone as equals.  Lois, when I was a little kid, I was left handed.  My grandmother went crazy trying to change this.  When I started school, they would tie my left hand behind me forcing me to use my right hand.  They finally gave up and blamed my father for my deformity.  He was right handed but it was his fault. In high school, I played tournament tennis and could slam with either hand.  Heh heh heh

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Posted: 12 December 2012 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 179 ]
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I guess I have to live with the fact that gays are a minority but hope that they can be changed as part of the latest scientific study.  This sadderns me more than I can say.  No, I’m not gay, I’m not anything other than annoyed that people would rather we all be identical in every way.  I will take a break from CFI.

I spent the morning sending emails out for my group of California Equality to work on the Supreme Court’s decision to allow gay marriages.  I won’t drop the information here.  I hope that if any of you should discover your child is gay, to be more open to the meaning of this.

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Posted: 12 December 2012 04:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 180 ]
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Sandy Price - 12 December 2012 01:07 PM

I was teasing Dead Monky…I have no intentions of adding or subtracting anything from anyone.  This trying to “straighten” gay men is all over the internet and it annioys me.  I wish the energy would be onto educating people on how to accept everyone as equals.  Lois, when I was a little kid, I was left handed.  My grandmother went crazy trying to change this.  When I started school, they would tie my left hand behind me forcing me to use my right hand.  They finally gave up and blamed my father for my deformity.  He was right handed but it was his fault. In high school, I played tournament tennis and could slam with either hand.  Heh heh heh

Yes, you showed ‘em, Sandy!  My father was left handed and they forced him to write with his right hand in school.  But he also drew and painted, which he did with his left hand.  He did everything else left-handed, too.  I’m glad this is not done today.  It should be seen as child abuse. It’s also a great analogy for homosexuality. A left-handed kid can be forced to write right handed but you can’t “convert” him or her to right-handedness. No matter what you do the kid will be left handed.  The same is true for homosexuality and no one should be expected to “convert” to heterosexuality. To even try is also child abuse. In fact to suggest that the child has something wrong with him or her is child abuse. 

.....

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