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Homosexuality
Posted: 12 December 2012 05:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 181 ]
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My father went through the same knuckle raps by the Nuns for using his left hand.  He made it very clear to my first grade teacher that she was not to try to covert my left-handedness.  When I was a teen-ager I loved to play table tennis and practiced with a tournament quality player friend.  Similarly to Sandy, I could slam the ball equally well with either hand, which meant I could miss the table by the same amount with each.  LOL

At present, one may speak of his “homosexual” friend, neighbor or co-worker.  From all the indications among young people, I think homosexuality will soon stop being interesting.  We never hear anyone bother to identify a friend, neighbor or co-worker as heterosexual.  That’ll be the case more and more frequently as we old fuds die off.

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Posted: 13 December 2012 12:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 182 ]
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Lois - 12 December 2012 04:07 PM

The same is true for homosexuality and no one should be expected to “convert” to heterosexuality. To even try is also child abuse. In fact to suggest that the child has something wrong with him or her is child abuse. 

.....

Do you mean that it’s child abuse for the parents to suggest that anything at all is wrong with their child - sexual or otherwise, or are you just talking about suggesting their sexual orientation is wrong, is abuse?

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Posted: 13 December 2012 07:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 183 ]
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You said it better then I did Lois.  We are all individual humans and there is no perfect model.  My old grandmother explained this to me that we are all unique and the greatest part is for us to learn the differences rather than the similarities.  My grandfather had the first Steinway dealership west of the Mississippi and all his kids had to learn to play a piano to demonstrate how this new instrument sounded.  The family of 5 became competitive and finally we had a couple of string players, a horn player and everyone could read and write music.  My grandfather took a 5 foot Stech baby grand for a down payment on one of his concert grand pianos and years later when I married I was given that baby grand.  I sold it a couple of years ago to a member of the symphony board and it was in perfect condition.  It had the original ivories that we babied for as long as it was in our care.  I’m sorry I sold it but my hands were so arthritic that I couldn’t play anything.  We shipped my mother’s Steinway to the Seattle Symphony after she died.  It was way too big for any home I would ever own.

I remember asking my grandmother why some men were gay and she thought about this and said “Maybe God thought we had too many people on this planet and it was his way of warning us.”  She talked about her life in Utah and how many of her babies were born dead.  She had 9, I believe but only 5 survived.  She cried with joy when I brought my babies who were healthy, beautiful and happy.  She had 23 grandchildren.  She raised me and it was my job to keep track of all the names of her extended family members.  I turned over the family bible along with the autobiography of Parley Parker Pratt who was the great grandfather of our family along with Romney, and I sent it to the Temple in Salt Lake City.  I have no interest in such things.  I was never baptized in the Temple and my children chose not to be either. 

The closest I ever came to being baptized was to dance around England’s Stonehenge with a group of young Celtic girls who played some old recorders.  They gave me a long white gown and invited me to join them.  How could I say no?  I toured with 40 students from the University of California, Santa Barbara on a Shakespearean tour.  My older girl had done this tour before and loved it.  I headed off alone and had the time of my life.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 06:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 184 ]
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FinallyDecided - 06 November 2011 06:48 AM

As a humanist, how do you view homosexuality? Especially when one tries to argue that the natural desire is for humans to procreate and ensure their genes are passed on? Even when any religious influence is removed from the equation, how is the homosexual to feel “normal,” biologically? For example, in reading an anatomy and physiology book, the author takes a stance that the reproductive organs exist for the sole purpose of, well, reproducing. How is the homosexual to reconcile this?

As a gay man, I try my best to feel one with mainstream society; however, even in secular society, I still feel the norm is for traditional family. Do humanist’s generally view the same sex couple and family just as valid? I have equated and justified same sex activity, that which does not have any potential to procreate, as similiar to heterosexual activity that also has no potential of procreating (i.e. oral sex, sex using a method of birth control) to be of a similar concept. After all, most of society does not devalue the heterosexual couple that participates in sexual activity that has no chance of procreating (i.e. when they habitually use a method of birth control or engage in a sex act that does not procreate). Should same sex sexual activity be viewed any differently, given that neither (in the aforementioned situation) has the intention of procreating? Do you all agree with my reasoning? Any further insight or views would be appreciated.

Hi!... I haven’t read any of the other responses so I might repeat things. In that case, sorry.

Of course humans only procreate in a certain instance, man and woman, but what does that have to do with sex or attraction? Religion takes this to an abnormal level and being focused on genes and their “ideas” is way out there as well. We’re not a textbook, we’re people. Textbooks (and theologies) are used to pin-point things, understand them, try to make sense of them, but the picture is always way bigger and much less defined. Don’t get hung up on that. Enjoy your life!

I’m transgendered, and I’m (sort of) bisexual. What is my greatest wish? To find a husband to have a family with! That’s pretty traditional and possibly perceived as weird. - We’re “social animals” as they call it, and that “society” is not named after human philosophies, be they religious or political or whatever. We just are.

I understand that you try to make sense of things, but there’s really not too much to make sense of being gay. You don’t have to justify yourself. - A family friend of mine, they are both nearing their seventies by now, they have had the most beautiful relationship. I knew them ever since I was little. Well, that’s family, even if it’s gay or lesbian or whatever. Love is that thing that makes things tick and keep going.

Hey… all the best to you. Don’t worry too much. Just enjoy your life!

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Posted: 28 September 2013 07:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 185 ]
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I have lost my interest in how CFI opines about homosexuality.  My entire interest in why I joined up here was to locate some action in removing federal laws that are based on religious doctrine.  I want a return to the separation of church and state in all matters.  Sadly when I mentioned an opinion about a private matter a year ago, someone decided my attitude about personal things are based on my involvement in my growing up in Hollywood California.  It seems that all values and opinions demand labels and I feel sorry for this attitude. 

I still read at least one book a week as my eyes are giving up the ghost.  I ran into a writer who had been associated with my husband back in the late 1950’s.  It jump started my own interest in their subject and my reasearch has taken off again.  It would label me as ape-itshay nuts.  Unless I am researching something worthy, I tend to get bored.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 186 ]
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Sandy Price - 28 September 2013 07:16 AM

I have lost my interest in how CFI opines about homosexuality.  My entire interest in why I joined up here was to locate some action in removing federal laws that are based on religious doctrine…

I can see how discussions about homosexuality can be boring to some, as homosexuality and how homosexuals are treated in society has very little direct effect on me.  However, I recognize the effect that it does have on me (by virtue of my sense of justice and fair play).  And there are federal laws that have been influenced, to some degree, by religious doctrine, that have discriminated against persons who happen to be homosexual.  Some of these are changing.  Part of the process and impetus for such changes involves talking about it.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 12:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 187 ]
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I would much rather talk about the separation of church and state.  I’ve carried the flag for homosexuality for over 60 years.  It is simply a small part on the need for civil rights to be expanded for everyone. 

Bringing God into any discussion, brings the talk to a stop! 

TimB,  I am older than most who join this group and I am running out of time.  In 1973 I celebrated the Supreme Court in their decision on abortions.  Now even that is back in the list of subjects to discuss.  I receive many emails for my continuing support for abortions.  I’ve attended thousands of fund raisers for many civil right’s groups.  Many of us are now supporting the grandchildren of the original women who worked in California and stood behind Governor Reagan when he became the first Governor to sign on to Roe cv Wade. 

I found myself at the breakfast table with a founder of CFI years ago.  He gave me some good advice to stop arguing on the simple act of civil rights and zero on one or two.  In 2008, I discovered how racist the American voters had become.  I’m third generation and my grandkids make it 5.  I have become extremely respectful of our President but regret that he is black.  It has held his progressive actions back and some how woke up a level of fools to try and take him down. 

I registered at 21 to vote as a Republican and kept my allegiance until Bush 41 spouted his religious threats.  I suddenly realized that being a female put me on a “do not respect” list.  I changed my organizations and left the GOP and the NRA and joined the ACLU.

I can only guess that you have a growing list of freedoms to work for.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 12:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 188 ]
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The discussion on homosexuality is not boring; it is heartbreaking.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 12:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 189 ]
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Sandy, I find the emphasis, in your life, on social activism to be admirable.  And I think, as you, that the separation of Church and State is an important issue.

I don’t find discussions of homosexuality to be heartbreaking, as it is clear to me, at this point, that our society’s attitudes about homosexuality are progressing.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 28 September 2013 05:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 190 ]
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Far too many new scientific studies and new forms of culture are all sent through the wringer before they are accepted.  The wringer being “accepted by the church.”  Mathew Sheppard was not just murdered for being a homosesual but tortured horribly and left to die nailed to a fence.  When gay young men realize their impact on their own society, all too many choose suicide.  These young men committed no crime.  Every time a hurricane or storm ends up destroying homes and lives, there will always be a church who blames the gays for God’s vengence.

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Posted: 30 September 2013 10:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 191 ]
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Sandy Price - 28 September 2013 12:08 PM

I would much rather talk about the separation of church and state.  I’ve carried the flag for homosexuality for over 60 years.  It is simply a small part on the need for civil rights to be expanded for everyone. 

Bringing God into any discussion, brings the talk to a stop! 

We just went through legalizing gay marriage here in MN. One vote in the House came from a district that was strongly against it, but the representative stated that although he heard the majority of his constituents were against it, the reasons they gave were purely Biblical. He could not in good conscious vote simply to please his voters. He had to look at the rights of people based on the constitution he swore to defend. A great victory for separation.

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Posted: 30 September 2013 10:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 192 ]
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When I was 12 years old, it dawned on me that any belief in any God was an enornous joke being played on many ignorant people.  My grandfather introduced me into the faith behind the Mormon church.  My first impression was pity for the nicest person in my family.  I was in an all girls boarding school with a fabulous library and access to UCLA.  I began to look at other people in a different way.  Being an Atheist was like being a Nazi in those days.  I had a naturally inquisitive mind but learned tp keep all my thoughts to myself.  I’m in my 80’s now and still fnd trouble when I try to share opinions with others. I have travelled all over the world and discovered that God still writes the laws and we are expected to never deny this. 

I went on line in 1992 and thought this new world of communication might just be ready for independence for individuals.  I was absolutely mistaken.  I never wanted a single church closed basically because I had my own chamber music ensemble and the smaller churches were built for the perfect sound that my groups needed.  My fight came with the GOP who wanted federal laws rewritten to reflect Jesus Christ.  Even a total idiot could see an assault on Jews and Islam.  When the government started insulting American women claiming they have a predisposition to breeding which to many men means an incurable disease. 

When the last of my kids went off to college, I became a hermit.  I took on learning about mamy unpopular subjects like grand opera and UFOs,  My children understand and respect my oddness.  My youngest girl and her husband picked up a satellite radio that broadcast from the N.Y, Met.  I have 3 of these units in my home and gives me 24 hours a day of performances from the Met.  It is a sound completely lost in this neighborhood.

I did not fare well here but will respond when a poster replies to an old post of mine.  I am thrilled that your state has accepted equality.  I was raised in the world of threater and music that seemed to attract all forms of human activity.  We learn to judge on talent.

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