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Rebuttal to Skepchick’s youtube Homeophobia rant
Posted: 15 November 2011 08:53 PM   [ Ignore ]
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I thought part of what skeptics do is because they are against falsehoods and misinformation, so let’s take a look at “Skepchick’s” youtube Homeophobia rant.


Skepchick: Homeopathy and the FDA

@:05 - She claims Homeopathy is a “scam.” OK, where’s the proof of that? 

Btw, Homeopathy has been around for over 200 years, there’s no patents on it, hundreds of companies produce homeopathic remedies, hundreds of thousands of doctors and practitioners practice it, the UK royals use it, is a multi-billion dollar industry, and by all signs keeps growing in popularity.  Wow, wouldn’t that make homeopathy the most successful medicine-related “scam” to date?!

@:07 - She tries to minimize the efficacy of Herbs by claiming Herbs can sometimes have a “small” effect. Herbs have been proven over and over again to have more of an effect than some FDA approved drugs. How could someone with her alleged intelligence not know this?

@:25 - She says according to Homeopathy, if you consume fecal matter and get E. Coli, the “Homeopathic cure” would be to consume more fecal matter. Um, no. A Homeopathic cure option for this would be to take homeopathically prepared E. Coli.

@:40 - Her description of how Homeopathic remedies are made is wrong (surprise!). She says the dilution process is by taking one part of a substance and drop in the amount of a glass of water then shake it, then take a drop of that and drop it into the amount of a swimming pool and mix it, then take a drop of that and drop it into the amount of the ocean and mix it. Homeopaths don’t add a “mixed” drop to an amount larger than the base amount of water, but to the exact same amount. So if you start by adding a drop of a substance to 10 drops of water, after shaking it (called “successioning”), they take one drop of that and add it to a new 10 drops of water. Then so on and so on to the desired potency.

@1:15 - Says according to Homeopathy, water has a memory. Where does Homeopathy ever say that? Some Homeopaths speculate that’s how Homeopathy might work. Why didn’t she make that disclaimer?

@1:30 - Tries to be funny by bringing up the thought of “sewage water” for the theory some Homeopaths have that water can retain a memory after successioning for some kind of “Ewww!” factor. Regardless of the obvious flaw in her comparison, she shoots herself in her own foot. According to the way she thinks Homeopaths think Homeopathy works, since drinking sewage water would obviously cause a lot of illness in people, using water with the “memory” of sewage water and potencizing it would make an effective homeopathic remedy!

@1:59 - She brings up how she thinks Homeopathy can harm by avoiding “real doctors” and “real medicine” for dangerous diseases. Funny she doesn’t say how many people per year are “harmed” by Homeopathy in this way (or how that more people get injured or die from “real doctors” using “real medicine” than I would say all of Alt medicine COMBINED!).

@2:42 - She mentions your “CFI On Campus” movement will be holding protests at campuses “across the country” to petition the FDA to crack down on the “purveyors of homeopathy.” Again, she fails to give a number of how many people in the U.S. are actually harmed by Homeopathy per year. What if it was only 10 people per year? Multiple campus protests for only 10 people per year?! How about the 100,000’s of people who get injured or die from needless medications or surgeries by those “real doctors” who practice “real medicine”? No, apparently Homeopathy is the bigger scourge.


Skepchick’s video is full of errors and faulty logic.  Are you guys going to “Stand for Science” and correct her?

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Posted: 15 November 2011 09:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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Homeopathy, like all of alt med, works great if actually have no health problems to fix.  If you have serious health issues though, Homeopathy is a damn good way to waste your money and get closer to death.

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Posted: 15 November 2011 11:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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@:05 - She claims Homeopathy is a “scam.” OK, where’s the proof of that?

Btw, Homeopathy has been around for over 200 years, there’s no patents on it, hundreds of companies produce homeopathic remedies, hundreds of thousands of doctors and practitioners practice it, the UK royals use it, is a multi-billion dollar industry, and by all signs keeps growing in popularity.  Wow, wouldn’t that make homeopathy the most successful medicine-related “scam” to date?!

Well… yeah. There’ no evidence it works better than placebo, yet like you said it’s a multi billion dollar business.

Power balance is a scam as well, yet man people believe it and they make a tanker of cash. Belief and money doesn’t make it less of a scam.

@:07 - She tries to minimize the efficacy of Herbs by claiming Herbs can sometimes have a “small” effect. Herbs have been proven over and over again to have more of an effect than some FDA approved drugs. How could someone with her alleged intelligence not know this?

Care to site examples?
I’m aware of one off thetop of my head, which would be St. John’s Wart. Good for mild depression.
However, much of modern medicine strted out as herbs, which were refined.

@:25 - She says according to Homeopathy, if you consume fecal matter and get E. Coli, the “Homeopathic cure” would be to consume more fecal matter. Um, no. A Homeopathic cure option for this would be to take homeopathically prepared E. Coli.


So.. drink water then?

@:40 - Her description of how Homeopathic remedies are made is wrong (surprise!). She says the dilution process is by taking one part of a substance and drop in the amount of a glass of water then shake it, then take a drop of that and drop it into the amount of a swimming pool and mix it, then take a drop of that and drop it into the amount of the ocean and mix it. Homeopaths don’t add a “mixed” drop to an amount larger than the base amount of water, but to the exact same amount. So if you start by adding a drop of a substance to 10 drops of water, after shaking it (called “successioning”), they take one drop of that and add it to a new 10 drops of water. Then so on and so on to the desired potency.

Yes, that’s more accurate. Still doesn’t make a lick of sense.

@1:15 - Says according to Homeopathy, water has a memory. Where does Homeopathy ever say that? Some Homeopaths speculate that’s how Homeopathy might work. Why didn’t she make that disclaimer?

because you take any of the current explanations for how homoeopathy works and the claim that water has memory.

@1:59 - She brings up how she thinks Homeopathy can harm by avoiding “real doctors” and “real medicine” for dangerous diseases. Funny she doesn’t say how many people per year are “harmed” by Homeopathy in this way (or how that more people get injured or die from “real doctors” using “real medicine” than I would say all of Alt medicine COMBINED!).

I’m aware of it happening with some regularity, What’s the Harm has a listing of several cases where people are warned off useful medication for homeopathy.

Look, real medicine has side effects. It also doesn’t always work. The difference with a lot of (but not all,) altmed is it DOESN’T work. Best you get is placebo effect, which all it seems to be is a subjective opinion of the patient that he or she feels better. While objectively, there’s no change. They are still sick.
No real issue is they take it in complement to their regular medication, except that they are tossing money away, but when the quack advises them to stop treatment all together, then there’re problems.

She mentions your “CFI On Campus” movement will be holding protests at campuses “across the country” to petition the FDA to crack down on the “purveyors of homeopathy.” Again, she fails to give a number of how many people in the U.S. are actually harmed by Homeopathy per year. What if it was only 10 people per year? Multiple campus protests for only 10 people per year?! How about the 100,000’s of people who get injured or die from needless medications or surgeries by those “real doctors” who practice “real medicine”? No, apparently Homeopathy is the bigger scourge.

False dichotomy. there are children starving to death right now in Africa, why are you concerned about a few hundred malpractice suits.

Skepchick’s video is full of errors and faulty logic.  Are you guys going to “Stand for Science” and correct her?

Wasn’t even aware of it until you brought it up, however I agree with her over all premise which is homeopathy is a scam.

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Posted: 16 November 2011 02:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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suede - 15 November 2011 08:53 PM

@:05 - She claims Homeopathy is a “scam.” OK, where’s the proof of that?

I think it’s only a scam in cases in which the person selling the product doesn’t believe in it and is deliberately relying on people being tricked into buying it and using it.

So Homeopathy is only sometimes a scam.

So if you start by adding a drop of a substance to 10 drops of water, after shaking it (called “successioning”), they take one drop of that and add it to a new 10 drops of water. Then so on and so on to the desired potency.

  LOL

(bold emphasis by me)

Stephen

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Posted: 16 November 2011 06:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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No suede, we are going to stand for science and declare homeopathic treatments are placebos and belief in homeopathy is evidence of scientific ignorance.

BTW, the shaking process is “succussing” not “successioning.” Before you criticize other people for not knowing what they are talking about you may want to brush up on your terminology. Successioning is something Rick Perry might do. wink

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Posted: 16 November 2011 10:25 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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BTW, the shaking process is “succussing” not “successioning.” Before you criticize other people for not knowing what they are talking about you may want to brush up on your terminology. Successioning is something Rick Perry might do.

Good point. :D

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Posted: 16 November 2011 12:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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suede - 15 November 2011 08:53 PM

@:25 - She says according to Homeopathy, if you consume fecal matter and get E. Coli, the “Homeopathic cure” would be to consume more fecal matter. Um, no. A Homeopathic cure option for this would be to take homeopathically prepared E. Coli.

Scientifically, how’s that supposed to work?

@1:59 - She brings up how she thinks Homeopathy can harm by avoiding “real doctors” and “real medicine” for dangerous diseases. Funny she doesn’t say how many people per year are “harmed” by Homeopathy in this way (or how that more people get injured or die from “real doctors” using “real medicine” than I would say all of Alt medicine COMBINED!).

At least evidence-based medicine is based on evidence. Compare with alt-med, where health claims are often made without supporting evidence. Fewer people use alt-med so fewer people die from it. So it’s not really a fair comparison you’re making. Instead, you should compare how health is affected by alt-med treatments vs mainstream treatments, per patient.

Skepchick’s video is full of errors and faulty logic.  Are you guys going to “Stand for Science” and correct her?

Homeopathy is not scientific.

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Posted: 16 November 2011 07:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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Btw, Homeopathy has been around for over 200 years, there’s no patents on it, hundreds of companies produce homeopathic remedies, hundreds of thousands of doctors and practitioners practice it, the UK royals use it, is a multi-billion dollar industry, and by all signs keeps growing in popularity.  Wow, wouldn’t that make homeopathy the most successful medicine-related “scam” to date?!

So many logical fallacies in a single statement and so little time.

Suffice to say that an appeal to antiquity and and appeal to popularity doesn’t make it right.

Just because it’s been around a long time doesn’t mean a thing. Bloodletting was around for a long time and that doesn’t work either.

Just becuase it’s popular doesn’t mean it’s right. Millions and millions of people CAN be wrong.

As to the scientific refutation, you can use http://www.skepdic.com/homeo.html as a starting point, being sure to follow the links and the references.

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Posted: 17 November 2011 09:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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I suppose you could make the argument that homeopathy doesnt hurt anyone because it doesnt do anything. How can something completely inert cause any harm. Of course it doesnt do any good either.  However, to juxtapose this with conventional medicine and then claim that homeopathy is therefor better is a silly argument. If i have appendicitis and i choose to have surgery there is a real but remote risk that I could die from a surgical complication. Doing nothing ( ie. taking the homeopathy route) will allow me to avoid any treatment side effects or complications but its also likely to leave me quite dead.

The false arguments and misrepresentations in the OP’s post could keep us busy for weeks, but everyone here has done a good job of pointing out the weaknesses in suede’s arguments. It looks like he/she is a one time poster with a chip on his/her shoulder who just wanted to get something of their chest and most likely isnt coming back to listen to anything we have to say anyway.

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Posted: 17 November 2011 10:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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Don’t you just love the smell of SPiced hAM???

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Posted: 18 November 2011 12:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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mid atlantic - 15 November 2011 09:52 PM

Homeopathy, like all of alt med, works great if actually have no health problems to fix.  If you have serious health issues though, Homeopathy is a damn good way to waste your money and get closer to death.

Wonderful.  What does that have to do with my rebuttal to Skepchick’s rant?

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Posted: 18 November 2011 12:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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rebut this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WyzM_TsIXc


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 18 November 2011 12:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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ShadowSot - 15 November 2011 11:49 PM

Well… yeah. There’ no evidence it works better than placebo, yet like you said it’s a multi billion dollar business.

So to clarify, that would make homeopathy the most successful medicine-related “scam” to date?

Care to site examples?
I’m aware of one off thetop of my head, which would be St. John’s Wart. Good for mild depression.
However, much of modern medicine strted out as herbs, which were refined.

That was the first herb I thought of.  So you agree Skepchick was minimizing the efficacy of herbs?

So.. drink water then?

So what was her point then, cause her way you’d be drinking plain water too, right?

because you take any of the current explanations for how homoeopathy works and the claim that water has memory.

Who says that, the industry (as in remedy makers saying that on their bottles or on their websites) or some homeopaths?

I’m aware of it happening with some regularity, What’s the Harm has a listing of several cases where people are warned off useful medication for homeopathy.

Several cases a year?

False dichotomy. there are children starving to death right now in Africa, why are you concerned about a few hundred malpractice suits.

I’m just saying if you are truly concerned about people getting hurt from medicine, people getting hurt from homeopathy is just a blip on the radar compared to how many people get hurt by conventional medicine.  Doesn’t it make logical sense to go after what causes the most harm?

Wasn’t even aware of it until you brought it up, however I agree with her over all premise which is homeopathy is a scam.

You guys got any evidence it’s a “scam”?  With the amount of companies making remedies and doctors “prescribing” it in the world, there’d have to be about a million people in on it, right?

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Posted: 18 November 2011 12:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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suede - 15 November 2011 08:53 PM

I thought part of what skeptics do is because they are against falsehoods and misinformation, so let’s take a look at “Skepchick’s” youtube Homeophobia rant.


Skepchick: Homeopathy and the FDA

@:05 - She claims Homeopathy is a “scam.” OK, where’s the proof of that? 

Btw, Homeopathy has been around for over 200 years, there’s no patents on it, hundreds of companies produce homeopathic remedies, hundreds of thousands of doctors and practitioners practice it, the UK royals use it, is a multi-billion dollar industry, and by all signs keeps growing in popularity.  Wow, wouldn’t that make homeopathy the most successful medicine-related “scam” to date?!

Yes, homeopathy may well be the most successful alt-med scam to date.

@:07 - She tries to minimize the efficacy of Herbs by claiming Herbs can sometimes have a “small” effect. Herbs have been proven over and over again to have more of an effect than some FDA approved drugs. How could someone with her alleged intelligence not know this?

If you list an herb or two, perhaps we could have a discussion.

@:25 - She says according to Homeopathy, if you consume fecal matter and get E. Coli, the “Homeopathic cure” would be to consume more fecal matter. Um, no. A Homeopathic cure option for this would be to take homeopathically prepared E. Coli.

And you would drink homeopathic E. Coli? You do know that homeopathy is just a series of dilutions, right?

@:40 - Her description of how Homeopathic remedies are made is wrong (surprise!). She says the dilution process is by taking one part of a substance and drop in the amount of a glass of water then shake it, then take a drop of that and drop it into the amount of a swimming pool and mix it, then take a drop of that and drop it into the amount of the ocean and mix it. Homeopaths don’t add a “mixed” drop to an amount larger than the base amount of water, but to the exact same amount. So if you start by adding a drop of a substance to 10 drops of water, after shaking it (called “successioning”), they take one drop of that and add it to a new 10 drops of water. Then so on and so on to the desired potency.

So what? Eventually the dilution can get to a point where not a molecule of the “substance” remains. And do you believe that water has “memory?”

@1:15 - Says according to Homeopathy, water has a memory. Where does Homeopathy ever say that? Some Homeopaths speculate that’s how Homeopathy might work. Why didn’t she make that disclaimer?

Well, if some homeopaths say that, then she has a right to say that some homeopaths say that. (BTW, homeopathy “says” nothing.)

@1:30 - Tries to be funny by bringing up the thought of “sewage water” for the theory some Homeopaths have that water can retain a memory after successioning for some kind of “Ewww!” factor. Regardless of the obvious flaw in her comparison, she shoots herself in her own foot. According to the way she thinks Homeopaths think Homeopathy works, since drinking sewage water would obviously cause a lot of illness in people, using water with the “memory” of sewage water and potencizing it would make an effective homeopathic remedy!

Sorry, you make no sense here.

@1:59 - She brings up how she thinks Homeopathy can harm by avoiding “real doctors” and “real medicine” for dangerous diseases. Funny she doesn’t say how many people per year are “harmed” by Homeopathy in this way (or how that more people get injured or die from “real doctors” using “real medicine” than I would say all of Alt medicine COMBINED!).

She is correct. She doesn’t have to state how many.

@2:42 - She mentions your “CFI On Campus” movement will be holding protests at campuses “across the country” to petition the FDA to crack down on the “purveyors of homeopathy.” Again, she fails to give a number of how many people in the U.S. are actually harmed by Homeopathy per year. What if it was only 10 people per year? Multiple campus protests for only 10 people per year?! How about the 100,000’s of people who get injured or die from needless medications or surgeries by those “real doctors” who practice “real medicine”? No, apparently Homeopathy is the bigger scourge.

Yeah, if 10 people/yr are harmed by homeopathy, it’s worth getting the news out. The medical profession admits its mistakes. Panels and boards are constantly investigating their practice.

Skepchick’s video is full of errors and faulty logic.  Are you guys going to “Stand for Science” and correct her?

I stand for science and hope to have corrected you, if possible.

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Posted: 18 November 2011 01:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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FYI… It’s St. John’s Wort, not wart.  LOL

wort means flower.


Of course if you have warts, you could grind one up and drink a diluted solution…

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Posted: 18 November 2011 01:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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DarronS - 16 November 2011 06:18 AM

No suede, we are going to stand for science and declare homeopathic treatments are placebos and belief in homeopathy is evidence of scientific ignorance.

Wonderful.  So you are not going to take a stand against Skepchick’s misinformation?

BTW, the shaking process is “succussing” not “successioning.” Before you criticize other people for not knowing what they are talking about you may want to brush up on your terminology. Successioning is something Rick Perry might do. wink

Thanks, Spelling Cop.

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