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Tom Flynn - The Trouble With Christmas
Posted: 21 November 2011 10:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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I like pow-wows….people, bearing gifts to family and old acquaintances, coming together to eat, dance, and be merry (it is forbidden to bring alcohol).

And it is a truly American tradition….. cheese

[ Edited: 21 November 2011 10:17 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 21 November 2011 10:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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jump_in_the_pit - 21 November 2011 08:02 AM

Is it psychologically healthy to just blend with the celebration of Christ’s birth

If that’s what Christmas is to you, then by all means, don’t celebrate it. Have a nice, quiet day at the office like Mr. Flynn.

jump_in_the_pit - 21 November 2011 08:02 AM

is it healthy to speak your mind about the truth to your family, during a big gathering?

Yes.

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Posted: 21 November 2011 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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I am relieved to see that most here share my dislike for Flynn’s hard-line stance against Christmas. As I listened to this episode I was thinking, “if this is how most humanists feel, then I’m in the wrong movement.”

One of the main lessons I take from my new world view is that nothing in the universe has inherent meaning. Everything just exists. “Meaning” is something created by sentient beings. Any meaning contained in the celebration of Christmas or any other celebration, comes from those who celebrate. I will celebrate it my way and I refuse to give it up because others choose to ascribe a different meaning to it.

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“I am patient with stupidity but not with those who are proud of it.”—Edith Sitwell

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Posted: 21 November 2011 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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Psychologically speaking, is a loving friendship and family supposed to be based on honest and open communication, or is it based on Humanists just blending in completely uncritically?  Does anyone care about Enlightening their loved ones about the good facts that you’ve learned?  Maybe there’s hope, maybe there’s some of your loved ones who will surprise you, maybe things could be better, maybe there could be honest and open communication in our futures?  smile  There’s got to be a better way than just silently blending in.  Do the gays just blend, I admire the gays very much.  smile

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Posted: 21 November 2011 12:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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jump_in_the_pit - 21 November 2011 11:52 AM

There’s got to be a better way than just silently blending in.  Do the gays just blend, I admire the gays very much.  smile

As do I. And many of them do in fact choose to “just blend in.” I work with one such person.

As with any other group, “gays” do not all behave the same way. Not do/should humanists.  smile

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Posted: 21 November 2011 12:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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jump_in_the_pit - 21 November 2011 11:52 AM

Does anyone care about Enlightening their loved ones about the good facts that you’ve learned?

Is this what you do with your Christmas holiday? No wonder you don’t want to celebrate it.

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Posted: 21 November 2011 12:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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1000 Needles - 21 November 2011 12:23 PM
jump_in_the_pit - 21 November 2011 11:52 AM

Does anyone care about Enlightening their loved ones about the good facts that you’ve learned?

Is this what you do with your Christmas holiday? No wonder you don’t want to celebrate it.

Stop twisting my words Needles.

Some of the gays blend, but I do admire the gays who do not blend, they have shown bravery, conviction, and purpose.  They are making good changes happen.  I’m not saying its easy, but if it makes progress, then isn’t it worthwhile?  smile

[ Edited: 21 November 2011 12:40 PM by jump_in_the_pit ]
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Posted: 21 November 2011 12:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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jump_in_the_pit - 21 November 2011 12:36 PM

I do admire the gays who do not blend, they have shown bravery, conviction, and purpose.

The analogy falls apart when using it to support quitting Christmas. Homosexuals don’t “not blend” by quitting dating or quitting having sex simply because those are things that heterosexuals do.

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Posted: 21 November 2011 01:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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1000 Needles - 21 November 2011 12:48 PM
jump_in_the_pit - 21 November 2011 12:36 PM

I do admire the gays who do not blend, they have shown bravery, conviction, and purpose.

The analogy falls apart when using it to support quitting Christmas. Homosexuals don’t “not blend” by quitting dating or quitting having sex simply because those are things that heterosexuals do.

Again you twist my words Needles, I have clearly encouraged communication and participation, clearly and repeatedly.  Stop twisting my words.  I like the idea of a good party, I like the idea of a Saturnalia-like party, I supported two winter celebrations, one Northern and one Southern.

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Posted: 26 November 2011 11:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness and therefore did not celebrate Christmas while I was growing up.  Witnesses consider Christmas an evil pagan festival, therefore have nothing to do with it.  I’m in the unusual position of only celebrating Christmas since I became an Atheist.  I love Christmas, so don’t take it away from me Mr Flynn, you grumpy old bugger! :D

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Posted: 26 November 2011 11:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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Matty - 26 November 2011 11:16 PM

I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness and therefore did not celebrate Christmas while I was growing up.  Witnesses consider Christmas an evil pagan festival, therefore have nothing to do with it.  I’m in the unusual position of only celebrating Christmas since I became an Atheist.  I love Christmas, so don’t take it away from me Mr Flynn, you grumpy old bugger! :D

Welcome to CFI, Matty,

Seems you have managed to break away from the “guilt” associated with religion…...Happy Holidays…!!!!

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Posted: 27 November 2011 06:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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I am slowly beginning to feel that without O’Reilly’s War on Christmas and Flynn’s Trouble with Christmas, it wouldn’t be Christmas at all.  grin

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Posted: 27 November 2011 09:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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George, those two make Christmas more entertaining, but without them we’d still have Black Friday, too much junk mail (the paper kind that kills trees), several of my friends scheduling Christmas parties, incessant It’s a Wonderful Life airings, and those Salvation Army old farts in Santa Costumes. That said, I understand your point and agree with you. There are annoying people on both sides.

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Posted: 27 November 2011 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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Matty - 26 November 2011 11:16 PM

I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness and therefore did not celebrate Christmas while I was growing up.  Witnesses consider Christmas an evil pagan festival, therefore have nothing to do with it.  I’m in the unusual position of only celebrating Christmas since I became an Atheist.  I love Christmas, so don’t take it away from me Mr Flynn, you grumpy old bugger! :D

Thanks for sharing a good story Matty.  Its refreshing to hear such a skeptical story.  smile  But do go easy on Tom people, he’s a good and amiable man.

On the other side though, the Puritans had something right, Christmas is not the birthday of Jesus, so it isn’t valid.  (Not that they got anything else right.)  The date is just competition for the Roman Saturnalia festival, a rockin’ good party from what I hear.  cool smile

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Posted: 28 November 2011 04:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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Christmas can’t be all bad, if it wasn’t for christmas we wouldn’t have this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A8KT365wlA

Not kidding either, I love it.

Stephen

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