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A question about humanism
Posted: 08 December 2011 05:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]
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thevillageathiest - 08 December 2011 04:46 PM

If they are the type of person to put humanity before everything else

Even the environment? Fundamentalists believe that mankind has dominion over everything, thus having the ability to exploit at will anything that isn’t human.

Cap’t Jack

That’s not how many of us interpret Genesis where it speaks about dominion. It places a responsibility on everyone to care for the world, not strip it for exploitation. No, I think it is the Republican who wishes to exploit the world’s resources. (if we are looking for someone to blame, why not them)

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Posted: 08 December 2011 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]
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ohio204 - 08 December 2011 05:08 PM
thevillageathiest - 08 December 2011 04:46 PM

If they are the type of person to put humanity before everything else

Even the environment? Fundamentalists believe that mankind has dominion over everything, thus having the ability to exploit at will anything that isn’t human.

Cap’t Jack

That’s not how many of us interpret Genesis where it speaks about dominion. It places a responsibility on everyone to care for the world, not strip it for exploitation. No, I think it is the Republican who wishes to exploit the world’s resources. (if we are looking for someone to blame, why not them)

IMO, the problem is culture neutral. As far as I know there are only a few isolated tribes around the world who truly live by philosophy that the earth is the mother and who respect all life that springs from it. The result has been very little technological advances, which I personally admire.
But they are far and few between. The rest of the world takes the word domination literally and seek to impose their dominion on everything they come in contact with.

[ Edited: 08 December 2011 05:27 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 08 December 2011 05:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]
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That’s not how many of us interpret Genesis where it speaks about dominion. It places a responsibility on everyone to care for the world, not strip it for exploitation.

Man, how THAT quote has been bastardized! That’s the excuse of everyone regardless of political affliliation to exploit nature at will. Remember Manifest destiny here? From sea to shining sea we burned, killed, ran into extinction, or nearly so, everything that could be turned into a profit. Another clear example of how the bible is used to justify selfish aims.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 08 December 2011 06:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]
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thevillageathiest - 08 December 2011 04:46 PM

If they are the type of person to put humanity before everything else

Even the environment? Fundamentalists believe that mankind has dominion over everything, thus having the ability to exploit at will anything that isn’t human.

Cap’t Jack

As PlaClair said, “Human concerns are central to human beings.” That includes the environment. Many humanists recognize our complete dependence on the environment that we live in. If our species is to continue, its important that we understand this. Many humanists that I know understand this very well.

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Posted: 08 December 2011 06:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]
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thevillageathiest - 08 December 2011 05:24 PM

That’s not how many of us interpret Genesis where it speaks about dominion. It places a responsibility on everyone to care for the world, not strip it for exploitation.

Man, how THAT quote has been bastardized! That’s the excuse of everyone regardless of political affliliation to exploit nature at will. Remember Manifest destiny here? From sea to shining sea we burned, killed, ran into extinction, or nearly so, everything that could be turned into a profit. Another clear example of how the bible is used to justify selfish aims.


Cap’t Jack

Yeah, I’m not a Christian anymore, and I, nor any other Christian that I knew ever believed that this passage was meant to support the destruction/exploitation of the world’s resources. I believe that the mandate was meant to be understood in the way that Ohio explained it. Its about ruling over something or someone in a responsible manner. At least nothing in the context appeared to imply anything else other than that.

[ Edited: 08 December 2011 06:26 PM by Cloak ]
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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

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Posted: 08 December 2011 06:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]
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What quote? I gave no excuse. You wanted to place some blame on the Fundamentalists regarding dominion and exploitation. I just offered up a different group who is known to favor big corporations, that’s all.

About Humanism, well, how can one be a humanist and hate another who has differing views?

btw, I’m not anti-Republican

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Posted: 08 December 2011 08:16 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]
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ohio204 - 08 December 2011 06:30 PM

What quote? I gave no excuse. You wanted to place some blame on the Fundamentalists regarding dominion and exploitation. I just offered up a different group who is known to favor big corporations, that’s all.

About Humanism, well, how can one be a humanist and hate another who has differing views?

btw, I’m not anti-Republican

What post are you responding to, Ohio? thevillageatheist’s? If so, I think he was only saying that if your interpretation of that passage is the right one, then people have really taken it and bastardized it out of its context in order to support their actions.

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Don’t get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

- Bruce Lee -

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Posted: 09 December 2011 04:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]
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oh, ok then

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Posted: 09 December 2011 05:17 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]
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Thanks cloak, that’s exactly what I meant. I wasn’t referencing the original intention of the biblical quote, just how it has been twisted by those who historically used it to justify their actions, using “dominion” as an excuse to commit any act that is personally, or nationally beneficial for gain regardless of the consequences. Many dispoilers have used this very passage to proclaim that it was their sacred duty to destroy the environment. Hence my reference to “manifest destiny” here in the States. God gave us the right to kill the Indians, wipe out the buffalo, and dispoil the land, and all in a Century!

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 09 December 2011 06:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]
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thevillageathiest - 09 December 2011 05:17 AM

God gave us the right to kill the Indians, wipe out the buffalo, and dispoil the land, and all in a Century!

Cap’t Jack

We had to make room for shopping malls and Super Bowls.

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Posted: 09 December 2011 06:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]
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yeah I see your point. Men using God to justify bad deeds.

Then there is the other side, men using secular thinking in justifying bad deeds , i.e. China Opium wars, China civil wars and early 1900 Russia; where the communists decided they had the right to kill millions of citizens in the name of common good. George W Bush justified the Iraq war on lies; yellow cake, WMD’s, etc

Man has a way of finding a reason or excuse to justify anything.

What is a Humanist to do?

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Posted: 09 December 2011 07:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]
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Man has a way of finding a reason or excuse to justify anything

I guess that we could say that it is human nature after all. And BTW the Opium Wars were for pure profit and imperialism., The Chinese Civil Wars were fought to gain political control of a country whose monarchical government was losing control of the people and could no longer satisfy their needs so warlordism began, an I ‘m assuming by the Communists you mean the Bolsheviks? That began as a civil war too, motivated by the crumbling power of the Romanovs due to World War I. It wasn’t until Stalin that the mass killings really began. SO, yes we’re motivated by power and greed as well as religion but my contention is that you can’t leave religion off the list and it has been a great motivator for the above. Remember the three G’s that brought the Spanish to our shores in the first place: gold, GOD, and glory! Of course George would just chalk it all up to genes, so what the hell.

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 09 December 2011 09:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]
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thevillageathiest - 09 December 2011 07:13 AM

Man has a way of finding a reason or excuse to justify anything

I guess that we could say that it is human nature after all. And BTW the Opium Wars were for pure profit and imperialism., The Chinese Civil Wars were fought to gain political control of a country whose monarchical government was losing control of the people and could no longer satisfy their needs so warlordism began, an I ‘m assuming by the Communists you mean the Bolsheviks? That began as a civil war too, motivated by the crumbling power of the Romanovs due to World War I. It wasn’t until Stalin that the mass killings really began. SO, yes we’re motivated by power and greed as well as religion but my contention is that you can’t leave religion off the list and it has been a great motivator for the above. Remember the three G’s that brought the Spanish to our shores in the first place: gold, GOD, and glory! Of course George would just chalk it all up to genes, so what the hell.

Cap’t Jack

‘pure profit and imperialism’ Sure, what isn’t? Doesn’t need to be ‘cause God said so’ is my point. The reasoning of non-Christians can’t be left off your list also.

Secular and Religious Humanists both share the same worldview and the same basic principles. This is made evident by the fact that both Secular and Religious Humanists were among the signers of Humanist Manifesto I in 1933, Humanist Manifesto II in 1973, and Humanist Manifesto III in 2003. From the standpoint of philosophy alone, there is no difference between the two. It is only in the definition of religion and in the practice of the philosophy that Religious and Secular Humanists effectively disagree. http://www.americanhumanist.org/who_we_are/about_humanism/What_is_Humanism

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Posted: 09 December 2011 09:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]
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‘pure profit and imperialism’ Sure, what isn’t? Doesn’t need to be ‘cause God said so’ is my point. The reasoning of non-Christians can’t be left off your list also

And MY point is in reference to those who use god as an excuse to dispoil and destroy. I assumed that everyone was already aware that depredations were done by those who didn’t commit these acts for any stated religious purpose. I considered that a moot point. Manifest destiny didn’t mean humanist destiny. It had a religious overtone.

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 13 December 2011 06:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]
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That AHA article was pretty good, it laid out some of the breath that Humanism has, went into the tenets too, and touched on some history.  Though I still think that Corliss Lamont did a better job of describing Humanism, but the article was a good short-format piece.  Thanks ohio204.  The author was obviously passionate about Religious Humanism, but I still don’t see it clearly.  What is it just another name for the Unitarian Universalist Protestant church, or is it different?  What is religion?

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