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Why, even among atheists, can we not say Islam is barbaric?
Posted: 13 December 2011 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Batarang Force
This is something I left out of my initial question. Being more “Left” of Center, I am finding that my “anti Muslim” perspective is only in line with hard core Right Wing proponents. At the same time, many liberals carry the same opinion of many Christians, which is a bunch of apologetic, head in the sand blatherings. Which is why all of this rhetoric is so confounding. Assuming people in the secular community wish to put a stop to the push towards a theocracy how is it that so many “atheists” draw a line in the sand (such as Axegrrl) and agree to statements such as, “Those were religious extremists!!” yet back off the second you mention that 911 was religiously motivated? To “attack” Islam, in the eyes of these secular apologists, is just insane.

Yet, I agree with Mid Atlantic, myself being a “liberal” that it is this liberal (Christian?) mind set of “love thy neighbor” that allows these evils to perpetuate.

Odd bed fellows.

You do seem to forget that Muslims were also killed on 911.
iMO it is better to make a statement that all religions are dangerous and argue the merits on that generality, without picking on 1 religion beacause it was the most recent in history. Once upon a time Christians were in the Muslim’s backyard, committing unspeakable crimes. Atheists are not exempt either.

Humanism is a non-religious philosophy and “practice”. A humanist cannot pick and choose whom he considers worthy. Condemn the “criminal”, not his innocent brother.
By the same token and as a matter of principle and law, the “seperation clause” should be strictly enforced for all parties.

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Posted: 13 December 2011 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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StephenLawrence - 13 December 2011 01:40 PM
George - 13 December 2011 12:55 PM

You sound very confused, Batarang Force. If the Bible is as violent as the Koran (and it is), and the Christians don’t act as violently as the Muslims, I see no reason why blame one religion more than the other.


I don’t understand why it’s assumed Christians act less violently than Muslims either?

Stephen

HAHA! Oh, I get it. You guys are trolls!! Hehe Ok, jokes on me. Sorry about that. Sometimes I’m a little slow on the nuances in forums and on interwebs. *smacks head* I’ll try to be a little quicker next time.

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Posted: 13 December 2011 01:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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StephenLawrence - 13 December 2011 01:40 PM
George - 13 December 2011 12:55 PM

You sound very confused, Batarang Force. If the Bible is as violent as the Koran (and it is), and the Christians don’t act as violently as the Muslims, I see no reason why blame one religion more than the other.


I don’t understand why it’s assumed Christians act less violently than Muslims either?

Stephen

“Assumed”?

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Posted: 13 December 2011 01:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Of course I do.

Well said. This is a guy on a mission to do what? Wipe Islam off the face of the Earth? Convince everyone with ad hominem remarks that he’s (assumption) right?

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 13 December 2011 01:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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Batarang Force - 13 December 2011 01:49 PM
StephenLawrence - 13 December 2011 01:40 PM
George - 13 December 2011 12:55 PM

You sound very confused, Batarang Force. If the Bible is as violent as the Koran (and it is), and the Christians don’t act as violently as the Muslims, I see no reason why blame one religion more than the other.


I don’t understand why it’s assumed Christians act less violently than Muslims either?

Stephen

HAHA! Oh, I get it. You guys are trolls!! Hehe Ok, jokes on me. Sorry about that. Sometimes I’m a little slow on the nuances in forums and on interwebs. *smacks head* I’ll try to be a little quicker next time.

No, I am not a troll. I only tried to show you why I think you’re wrong to blame Islam for the violent nature of the Muslims.

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Posted: 13 December 2011 01:58 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Yes, Islam is one nice playground where one can practice freedom and say what they want and women can drive.

At some point, Troll, individuals come together and form a society. In this case “theocracy.” God forbid we hold a system of government accountable.

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Posted: 13 December 2011 02:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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George - 13 December 2011 01:23 PM
Batarang Force - 13 December 2011 01:19 PM

I give up George. You win.

Of course I do.

Clearly, the religious have not cornered the market on arrogance!

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Posted: 13 December 2011 02:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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Batarang Force - 13 December 2011 01:19 PM

It’s obvious that you guys are here simply to argue for the sake of arguing and have no interest whatsoever to address a legitimate issue or question.

“you guys”???? WTF did I do?  rolleyes

 

This topic wasn’t a discussion on “the bible” because our issues here with bible thumpers are miniscule to those who die at the hands of Islam.

Sure, at this moment in time. Not so sure the historical totals are that much different.

The fact that you segue from the focus on Islam to push your own pseudo-intellectual agenda by referring to stanic versus in the bible is disgusting. Who cares what’s in the bible?? When was the last time someone got murdered (here in the U.S.) over what Christians or Catholics preach? Do you not see your circular reasoning George? The fact that we actually have freedom here and are NOT a theocracy means that we can actually choose NOT to follow the bible literally and NOT get murdered over it.

Hmm, wasn’t it us nice Christian types who went about killing over 100,000 civilians in Iraq? See your moronic reasoning BF? Of course there are those nice abortion clinic bombers over here.

That isn’t the case over there. The belief structure is entirely different to someone who does the most rudimentary of research. “See no reason why blame one religion more than the other?” Probably because that barbaric religion kills you, for real, not just in text, if you become an apostate. Why this isn’t self evident is ridiculous. But, I’ve wasted enough time here for one day. Why don’t you go stand up for the Nazi party, since you are not likely to blame a belief structure much less an institution and only the individuals.

... pathetic.

Where are you from (continent) BF?

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Posted: 13 December 2011 02:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Traveler - Ok, you got me on the abortion clinics. I clumsily forgot about those in the heat of responding to George and company. You are correct for reminding me that we do have Christian extremists here, which I momentarily forgot. My only thought would be that it is grossly minuscule in comparison to killings done in the name of Islam. I would think you would agree.

My reference to “you guys” was towards others who continued to miss the point, who chose to change the focus and hijack the question for their own agenda. The biblical comparison is beyond the scope of this simple post, would you not agree?

In your reference to the war in Iraq, I think you would also agree that it wasn’t done in the name of Christianity. However, your continual comparison of the Quran to the Bible is pushing beyond the scope of the subject. Take a look at the question, and see three pages of argument over people offended at my merely asking why we can’t state that Islam is barbaric. Look at George’s inane responses, and we will have an answer to the question I posed.

[ Edited: 13 December 2011 02:13 PM by Batarang Force ]
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Posted: 13 December 2011 02:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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BF, I also mentioned the over 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq. After all, Jesus told Bush to go over there.

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Posted: 13 December 2011 02:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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BF,
What you see as trolling is discussing the issue objectively and dispassionately.
Your passion is admirable, but it is passion which sometimes poses the danger. Be careful not to fall in that trap.

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Posted: 13 December 2011 02:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Batarang Force - 13 December 2011 01:58 PM

Yes, Islam is one nice playground where one can practice freedom and say what they want and women can drive.

At some point, Troll, individuals come together and form a society. In this case “theocracy.” God forbid we hold a system of government accountable.

You’re doing it again. If Islam is responsible for the oppression of women in Saudi Arabia, why don’t we see similar results in Turkey? And why are the Nigerians more violent than the Saudis even though only 50% of Nigeria are Muslims. The rest are Christians. But how could that be? Christianity is not as violent as Islam. Could it be that it is the people who form societies and religion and not the other way around?

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Posted: 13 December 2011 02:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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traveler - 13 December 2011 02:14 PM

BF, I also mentioned the over 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq. After all, Jesus told Bush to go over there.

... ok, 1) I actually think you have a good point here. I never thought of that.
2) If we push the issue, and I’m not, I don’t think the comparison is equal. The killing of people out of religious furor, as in the case of Theo Van Gough, is not the same case for us going to war. Many would argue it has to do with natural resources, not god. But, I agree, you do have a point that Bush mentioned God. At the same time, there would be violent opposition to him pushing the agenda that it’s ok to kill innocents in the name of God. (And if you bring up Abraham and Isaac and how Christains will kill their own brood, I swear to god I’m smacking you!)
3) Again, this is beyond the scope of the question I posed.

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Posted: 13 December 2011 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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George - 13 December 2011 02:22 PM
Batarang Force - 13 December 2011 01:58 PM

Yes, Islam is one nice playground where one can practice freedom and say what they want and women can drive.

At some point, Troll, individuals come together and form a society. In this case “theocracy.” God forbid we hold a system of government accountable.

You’re doing it again. If Islam is responsible for the oppression of women in Saudi Arabia, why don’t we see similar results in Turkey? And why are the Nigerians more violent than the Saudis even though only 50% of Nigeria are Muslims. The rest are Christians. But how could that be? Christianity is not as violent as Islam. Could it be that it is the people who form societies and religion and not the other way around?

George, I’ll answer you one last time, but I know it won’t make a difference to you since you are merely a troll who is smart enough to ask a couple monkey wrench questions and you could really care less about the answer, because, you’ll just keep asking more MONKEY wrench questions because, you really could care less about the answer. Again, you like to hear yourself talk.

In answer to your question, maybe it happens to come back to my point that I keep making, that “they aren’t good Muslims.” Take a look and see, Troll:
“Islam is the largest religion of Turkey. Around 96% percent of the population is registered as Muslim, mostly Sunni;[1][2] however, a 2007 survey found that about 3% of adults define their relation with religion as “having no religious conviction” or “not believing in religious obligations”.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Turkey

Catch my drift? See my point? The further you get away from Islam, the further you get away from barbarism. But… this is all wasted on you isn’t it, because you’re just looking for a bar fight. You could care less about the issue.

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Posted: 13 December 2011 02:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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The question is, are women allowed to drive in Turkey?

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