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Fish oil, dose it work?
Posted: 03 August 2007 07:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
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mckenzievmd - 03 August 2007 04:51 PM

people got better after being bled for centuries

Cmon Brennen, no one could be bled for centuries.  grin

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Posted: 03 August 2007 08:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
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ta-dum-dum LOL

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Posted: 03 August 2007 09:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
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LOL LOL LOL LOL  Gotta love wise asses.  I may smile at posts, but I almost never laugh out loud.  You did it, Cgallaga.  Great.

Occam

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Posted: 04 August 2007 07:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
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I’m here all weekend wink

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Posted: 04 August 2007 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
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Of course there is always going to be skeptics, but I know we are what we eat. If we eat crap then we are going to be ill and if we eat good food then we will not be ill. You can believe whatever you wish but before I started eating better food and taking supplements my health had gone down the toilet and I know I would have died years ago. When I was first brought into the nursing home I was told I would not be going home for at least two years because of my injuries and had I eaten the food they served there and not have taken my liquid vitamins or supplement they would have been right, but friends brought me in good food, my vitamins and supplements and even the doctors attested that as being the reason why I was able to walk out five weeks after I had enter the home that because I had been living a healthy life style when I went in and continued after I was in was the reason I was able to leave in such a short time. It is strange but both theist and atheist are skeptics when it comes to your health and what constitutes good health. But I find it more so amongst theist to be skeptical because for some reason they do not believe what you put in your body has anything to do with your health. Fortunately I have a doctor who believes as I do and have had several doctors in the past who have agreed with me and they were theist. In fact it is an established fact by scientific research that fish oil helps your body and will cut way down on many illnesses if used with a healthy diet and plenty of exercise.

But I suspect as a layman you will remain skeptical and I will not try to convince you otherwise because it is your life and your body and if you do not want to listen to reason then that is your desire and you have to live with it, but my desire is to continue a long and fruitful life of good health.

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Posted: 04 August 2007 07:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
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HG,
Sure, everyone is free to believe what they want. But I have to say that I think I am listening to reason, and I think you are listening to faith. Much like the theists you are so mad at.

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Posted: 04 August 2007 08:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
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I am not listening to anyone except my own body. But I see you are an animal doctor and therefore would know next to nothing except your own narrow minded opinion about the human body. If you are so bright then how was it I was able to leave the nursing home so quickly at age 72 after doctors told me not to expect to get out of there for at least two years? Now it is you that sounds more like a theist or listening to faith. And I just bet you eat fast foods and are a sickly person and therefore you are not going to listen to reason. You remind me of the hard headed narrow minded theist whose minds are made up and will not even raise a finger to investigate things on their own as they have a mindset. Then go on and eat your junk food and I’ll out walk you and out live you providing an accident don’t take me first and on my next birthday I will be 76.

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Posted: 04 August 2007 10:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
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Easy, HG, you’re jumping off the deep end. Making all sorts of assumptions, and snide accusations about me personally just because I don’t agree that your personal anecdote amounts to sceintific proof about the relationship between health and nutriional supplements? Not very polite, and terribly inaccurate. I eat a very healthy diet, exercise regularly, and if you decide to say something reasonable I’m pleased to listen to it. I suspect my medical training leaves me in somewhat better position to understand the human body that your experiences as a minister and fake religious guru. But in any case, the argument is not about credentials, it’s about what is true and how we decide.

Clearly, nutrition is important to health. But I see plenty of folks who take any old snake oil and then claim they got better because of it. Ever heard of the placebo effect? I could give you lots of examples from both human and veterinary medicine of this sort of thing, and why it is unreliable. Feline lower urinary tratc disease (in humans it’s called interstitial cystitis). Looks and acts just like a bladder infection. For decades we gave them antibiotics for 7-10 days, and they all got better and we got the credit. Then some smartass cultured their urine and gave them nothing, and guess what….No bacteria, and they all got better in 7-10 days. That’s the difference between science and anecdote. Nothing narrow-minded in recognizing that a lot of what people think they know just ain’t so. I realize that it is impossible to convince someone that what they think is a relationship between what they do and how they feel is spurious. That’s why I think it resembles faith so much. You aren’t prepared to listen to any evidence for why anecdotes are unreliable—you know what you know and anyone who disputes that you really know it is ignorant and narrow minded. Anyone else think that sounds like religious faith?

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Posted: 04 August 2007 10:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
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HG, what you say is an anecdote and to assume that as a something is a fact is needed more than just a case. There is a lot of people who had good results with homeopaty, but it doesn’t mean that homeopaty works:  another causes could be concurrent with the homeopatic treatment (spontaneuous cure, bad medical diagnosis to name just a few) and the pacient is willing to accept that the homepatic treatment cured him or her. It’s needed more than a case to accept than something cure or ill people.

HG, have you ever considered a medical misdiagnostic on your case?.

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Posted: 05 August 2007 07:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
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HG you would have been better off to follow my lead and nit pic. I say that not because I admire Brennen, nor because I am afraid of his Moderator powers, but because most of his post was logically unassailable. Just a few crumbs left for nit picking and humor. Nits can be nutritional, but laughter is the best medicine. wink

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Posted: 05 August 2007 08:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
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There is also the fascinating nocebo effect to consider.

Here’s an experiment with both a nocebo and a placebo effect.

In one experiment, asthmatic patients breathed in a vapor that researchers told them was a chemical irritant or allergen. Nearly half of the patients experienced breathing problems, with a dozen developing full-blown attacks. They were “treated” with a substance they believed to be a bronchodilating medicine, and recovered immediately. In actuality, both the “irritant” and the “medicine” were a nebulized saltwater solution.

http://skepdic.com/nocebo.html

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Posted: 05 August 2007 11:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
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That’s a great example, Chris. I hadn’t been aware of the “nocebo” effect, although in retrospect it makes perfect sense.

... puts a lot of so-called “food allergies” in their place.

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Posted: 05 August 2007 12:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
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Yes, great example. We are so used to hearing about the beneficial effects of our beliefs on how we feel (as in the placebo effect), that we forget that our thoughts and preconceptions can just as easily have negative effects. Science Friday had a piece on recent functional imaging studies of the placebo effect, and the experimetner seemed gleeful about the possibility of tapping into the power of the mind to cure diseases, since at least some real physiological things happen based on how we think. It is good to be reminded that the reverse is also true.

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Posted: 05 August 2007 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
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I had a classic case of AM (alternative medicine) reasoning the other day I thought might be interesting and illustrative. A woman brought her dog in 1 year ago because her AM practitioner (Vega Method style of homeopathy) detected signs of leukemia. Patient had some vomiting and diarrhea. Did bloodwork and no abnormalities found, treated symptomatically for upset stomach (it was a lab, so probably ate something it shouldn’t have), and it got better. A year later, the client comes back, this time because the dog is panting more than usual and her AM practitioner decided it had a sarcoma in its chest. Again normal diagnostics (bloodwork, x-rays) here. I reminded her that she had been worried about leukemia, whcih never developed, a year earlier. Her response was that the AM practitioner had not only NOT made a mistake, but had detected the leukemia before we were able to and cured it. So here’s how it works. About once a year this homeopathist predicts the dog has cancer. When no cancer is ever found by us, she gets the credit for finding and curing it before we can even see it. And when it eventually does develop cancer (which is the leading cause of death for this age and breed), she will get the credit for correctly predicting it. How do I get a racket like that?!

A propos of the above discussion about standards of evidence, HERE is a link to a brief article from Skeptic’s Dictionary on how we evaluate our personal experiences.

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Posted: 05 August 2007 07:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
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I’m a little bummed to learn the leading cause of death for my chocolate lab may be cancer…but we all go somehow I guess.

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