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Cold fusion back in the news…
Posted: 20 December 2011 12:09 PM   [ Ignore ]
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http://bostonglobe.com/business/2011/11/28/hope-skepticism-for-cold-fusion/w7FgGyI9Zx432chxuD5BEL/story.html

Hmm…

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 22 December 2011 02:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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harry canyon - 20 December 2011 12:09 PM

http://bostonglobe.com/business/2011/11/28/hope-skepticism-for-cold-fusion/w7FgGyI9Zx432chxuD5BEL/story.html

Andrea Rossi made the trip at the invitation of the Senate’s minority leader, Bruce Tarr, a Republican from Gloucester, and met on Tuesday with representatives from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Northeastern University, and the University of Massachusetts.
Rossi’s energy catalyzer, or “E-Cat’’ reactor,
{...}
At this point, however, the E-Cat is widely considered to be unproven.
{...}
Tamarin said the meeting was mostly used to discuss the possibility of setting up manufacturing, rather than the validity of the science.
{...}
“Rossi said he was not ready for a full academic investigation of his technology because he doesn’t yet have full patent protection,’’ Tamarin said. “That’s consistent with it not working, but it’s also consistent with it working very well.’’
{...}
Rossi said he would also like to develop smaller household cold fusion power generators in Massachusetts.

Hmmm.
Hey, what’s that smell?

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Posted: 22 December 2011 02:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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I am a skeptic because the concept of cold fusion is “too good to be true”.  That being said I hope I"m dead wrong and one day we find it.

The article gives no details of how the “E-Cat” operates except to say it produces energy from a reaction between nickle and hydrogen.  To me it sounds like a chemical reaction and not a fusion reaction so how does it bring up the concept of “cold fusion.”

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Posted: 27 December 2011 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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harry canyon - 20 December 2011 12:09 PM

http://bostonglobe.com/business/2011/11/28/hope-skepticism-for-cold-fusion/w7FgGyI9Zx432chxuD5BEL/story.html

Hmm…

Take care,

Derek

It looks to me like there are one of 3 primary probable outcomes, here. 1) Dr. Rossi is scamming himself and others, and this is another dead end.  2) His low energy nuclear reaction device is for real and he will be able to market it efficiently enough that the world will be on a new course for energy production, or 3) #2 is correct but the whole thing will suddenly be dealt with by the current profiteering powers of energy production, and Rossi and his E-Cat will suddenly go the way of the Dodo. (As Stephen Colbert said “I am not a conspiracy theorist ... Or Am I?”)

[ Edited: 27 December 2011 05:07 PM by TimB ]
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Posted: 18 April 2012 11:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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“”“” It looks to me like there are one of 3 primary probable outcomes, here. 1) Dr. Rossi is scamming himself and others, and this is another dead end.  2) His low energy nuclear reaction device is for real and he will be able to market it efficiently enough that the world will be on a new course for energy production, or 3) #2 is correct but the whole thing will suddenly be dealt with by the current profiteering powers of energy production, and Rossi and his E-Cat will suddenly go the way of the Dodo. (As Stephen Colbert said “I am not a conspiracy theorist ... Or Am I?”) “”“”

My assessment of the situation is virtually identical to yours. While I’ve been leaning toward your 2) for quite some time, over the past few months I’ve concluded that progress toward end uses is going much too slow. To me this makes either 1) or 3) more plausible than 2), at this point in time, with 3) the most likely scenario.

[ Edited: 18 April 2012 11:06 PM by attaboy ]
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Posted: 19 April 2012 11:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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I’m leaning toward 1) being the most likely scenario, until I see evidence to the contrary.

As much as I want there to be a inexpensive, non-polluting, safe, renewable energy source, and as much as I enjoy a good conspiracy theory, I must guard against allowing my wants to over-ride my objectivity.

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 19 April 2012 11:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Why does he look like an actor in movie stills? hmmm…

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Posted: 19 April 2012 11:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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TimB - 19 April 2012 11:15 AM

I’m leaning toward 1) being the most likely scenario, until I see evidence to the contrary.

As much as I want there to be a inexpensive, non-polluting, safe, renewable energy source, and as much as I enjoy a good conspiracy theory, I must guard against allowing my wants to over-ride my objectivity.

Indeed, if room temperature cold fusion is a scientific impossibility, then it is a scientific impossibility, therefore #1

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Posted: 19 April 2012 02:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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My opinion is shaped to some extent by having spent over 30 years under the thumb of corporations. To me, it was surprising that Rossi got as far as he did given the power that could have crushed him at any time. BTW, Rossi is not the only one reporting the existence of Nickel Hydrogen cold fusion. There’s Defkalion Corp that also claims to be going commercial. Also, Piantelli has made a claim as well as Brian Ahern of MIT. I believe there are also others.

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Posted: 19 April 2012 02:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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My understanding of all cold fusion research is that it’s classic crank science.

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Posted: 19 April 2012 03:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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What if it’s not a nuclear reaction?  Anyone know anything about nanomagnetism?

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 19 April 2012 04:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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Oh good grief. The old corporations-are-stifling-our-limitless-power conspiracy theories again? Look, if cold fusion were even remotely possible, everybody with a lab would be pursuing it. It would literally be the breakthrough of the century—hell, the millennium. No way could that be kept under wraps. Like Doug said, it’s crackpot science.

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Posted: 19 April 2012 06:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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FreeInKy - 19 April 2012 04:45 PM

Oh good grief. The old corporations-are-stifling-our-limitless-power conspiracy theories again? Look, if cold fusion were even remotely possible, everybody with a lab would be pursuing it. It would literally be the breakthrough of the century—hell, the millennium. No way could that be kept under wraps.

Yep, it would be a multi-multi-multi billion dollar opportunity. Everyone and his brother would be taking out patents on everything.

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Posted: 19 April 2012 06:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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dougsmith - 19 April 2012 06:11 PM
FreeInKy - 19 April 2012 04:45 PM

Oh good grief. The old corporations-are-stifling-our-limitless-power conspiracy theories again? Look, if cold fusion were even remotely possible, everybody with a lab would be pursuing it. It would literally be the breakthrough of the century—hell, the millennium. No way could that be kept under wraps.

Yep, it would be a multi-multi-multi billion dollar opportunity. Everyone and his brother would be taking out patents on everything.

Not necessarily.  First of all, if you say to someone, “Hey!  I managed to figure this whole cold fusion thing out, and I can make it work!” they’re going to think you’re nuts.  They might not even be willing to give you the necessary amount of time to demonstrate a working prototype.  If they do allow you to demonstrate your prototype, you’re on the horns of dilemma: Odds are, that in order to prove you’re legit and not pulling a fast one, you’re going to have to let their experts tear your stuff apart to make sure you’re not conning them.  Once they do that, however, they don’t really need you, now do they?  As Robert Kearns found out, you can have the patents, can sue the folks for ripping you off, and still wind up losing, even though you win in court, because the damage award is less than your legal bills.  So, do you let them have at the stuff and risk losing everything?  Or do you try to find a way to sell your invention and make a profit?

How about someone develops/discovers a tree which produces diesel?  You’d naturally think that if such a thing existed, people would be all over that.  A green source of energy, to be sure.  And even if there were reasons why you couldn’t have plantations of the trees growing all over the place (say it only grew in a narrow climate range), people would be gene sequencing the tree and attempting to splice the diesel producing genes into trees/plants which could be more easily grown, right?  Wrong.

No need for conspiracy as to why these things aren’t happening, just good old fashioned human stupidity.  None of which means that cold fusion works, but just a couple of ways in which a “miracle” discovery can be allowed to languish.

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Posted: 19 April 2012 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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dougsmith - 19 April 2012 02:59 PM

My understanding of all cold fusion research is that it’s classic crank science.

Major scientists in the cold fusion field, Pons, Fleishmann, McKubre, Miley, Ahern all have impeccible reputations. Or at least they did until they got involved with the cold fusion fiasco. I don’t think these people are considered to be cranks by fellow scientists. And I don’t think the crank science label should be applied just yet.
The whole cold fusion issue is very complex. I don’t know of anyone who seems to have much of a clue as to what is really going on.

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Posted: 19 April 2012 10:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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I don’t recall the specifics, however, I believe that attempts to replicate the first results using slightly different conditions seemed to indicate that there was some minor glitch in the first set-up that gave erroneous results.  The investigators who first published weren’t thought of as nuts, but just that they had been a bit less rigorous than they could have been.

Occam

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