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Posted: 04 January 2012 10:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]
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upwardlook1 - 04 January 2012 10:04 AM

Macgyver,

Behold I just discovered a 3rd one. You said, “high degree of certainty” You are trusting in a high degree of certainty, not absolute certainty and that requires faith.

Its not faith at all. Its an educated conclusion based on observation and evidence. Let me explain the difference. Lets say there is a stone on a platform with a trap door below it. I open the trap door and the stone falls to the surface below. I do this a thousand times, maybe ten thousand times and every time the same thing happens. You now ask me what i think will happen when you open the door for the 10,001th time. My educated opinion based on 10,000 observations is that the stone will fall to the surface below. Can i be absolutely certain of that? No but I can have a high degree of certainty. Someone can come along and challenge my opinion but they would need some extraordinary evidence to convince me otherwise ( ie. They could show me there is an electromagnet under the table which has been switched on and provide some evidence that the stone has magnetic properties so that this time it would actually be propelled upwards)

Faith is a very different thing. Someone with faith would see the stone fall 10,000 times just as I did but when they were told by someone in authority ( a priest maybe? a vision of god?) that the next time the trap door opened the stone would be propelled upward and a unicorn would appear in the spot where the stone had been they would believe it. They would believe it not because there was any evidence at all to support that conclusion but because they had faith. Its a very different concept.

Faith is something thats held on to by people who need definite answers and can’t live with the uncertainty of the universe around us. Science is a slow process. It may be hundreds or millions of years before we have all the answers. We may not even be smart enough to ever figure it all out, but science has done an incredible job of illuminating things that were once mysterious and thought to be the work of magical forces. I’m willing to accept some holes in my knowledge for now while we work out the rest. Thats not faith. Its a reasonable conclusion based on what I’ve observed so far. In the contest to explain the universe the score is currently SCIENCE: Billions,  god: zero, but you never know. Maybe god will come down and do a bunch of miracles at the last minute and we’ll have to go into overtime. That is assuming the flying spaghetti monster doesn’t beat him to it.

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Posted: 04 January 2012 11:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 122 ]
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upwardlook1 - 04 January 2012 09:52 AM

Traveler,
You proved my point- you have made statements showing you believe in eternal matter- a matter of faith in matter. I prefer a belief in eternal Deity. rolleyes

I never said i believe in eternal matter. I follow the logic regarding the age of the universe and there seems plenty of evidence to support the conclusion that matter has been around since the universe began, but as doug already said, we don’t know what happened before that. I can see matter. I know it exists. I see no evidence for a deity eternal or otherwise.

What i said is that there seems to be plenty of evidence that Mindless matter can give rise to mindful beings and i stand by that.

You need to read my posts more carefully and stop cherry picking a few words here and there out of context to try and make a point.

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Posted: 04 January 2012 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 123 ]
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upwardlook1 - 04 January 2012 09:32 AM

I’ve responded to yours several times. Perhaps you have not read some of my post. Anyway a response to you follows-

For emergence to work on matter first you must have matter. So we are back to 1 of 2 faiths. One believes in eternal, mindless matter or that person believes in eternal Deity.
Nice try. Keep working on it. Maybe out there somewhere you’ll find a 3rd possibility. 
smirk  question

I’ve read every one of your posts. The problem is that your responses are not responses. You don’t answer my questions or respond to my arguments you just post a new talking point. Thats not a response. Many others have posted on here and you have completely ignored them even when they ask you questions you should be able to easily answer if there is any basis for your position.

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Posted: 04 January 2012 01:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 124 ]
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This is post #124 in this thread. One more and the OP will be gone. Please, someone post something quickly. The stupid is starting to hurt my brain.

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Posted: 04 January 2012 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 125 ]
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God designed the banana with a non-slip surface.

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Posted: 04 January 2012 01:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 126 ]
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George - 04 January 2012 01:48 PM

God designed the banana with a non-slip surface.

and shape that fits in the hand just right….
and…
and…
no, no, I won’t go there   tongue rolleye

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Posted: 04 January 2012 04:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 127 ]
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This baby has been nursed enough, but it fails to thrive. Lactose intolerance?

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Posted: 04 January 2012 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 128 ]
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One can only hope s/he is gone, probably declaring him/herself the winner to any fundie who is willing to hear about how ‘stupid’ those atheists are…which was just his/her objective, not to learn or even share…

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Posted: 22 January 2012 02:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 129 ]
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mid atlantic - 29 December 2011 07:18 PM

Boobs just can’t be explained, therefore God is real!!!!  That is the new thesis we evos must defend.

Mammals suck, therefore God is imperfect.  How’s that?

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As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

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Posted: 22 January 2012 06:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 130 ]
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And to fill in the logic: 1. All mammals suck.  2. Humans are mammals.  3.humans are made in the image of god.  4.  God sucks.

Occam

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Posted: 22 January 2012 06:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 131 ]
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But from what would God suck????  smile

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Posted: 22 January 2012 06:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 132 ]
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traveler - 22 January 2012 06:22 PM

But from what would God suck????  smile

You do know that is a perfect set-up for a very vulgar joke don’t you…..but I won’t go there…I’ll just think it… tongue laugh

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Posted: 30 January 2012 10:44 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 133 ]
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Occam. - 29 December 2011 11:12 AM

I wonder if these nuts expect someone to post, “Oh gee.  I never thought of it that way.  I’ve been mistaken to believe in evolution for all these years.  You’ve convinced me to become a creationist.”  LOL

That would be as good a response as any to these type of posts. Actually, it would be kind of funny if a bunch of us did that…

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Posted: 30 January 2012 03:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 134 ]
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I agree, but the problem with that is they would think, “Wow, that was so easy to convert these dumb atheists to creationism.  I’m going to stick around and convert them all to evangelical christians.”  vampire  LOL

Occam

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Posted: 30 January 2012 04:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 135 ]
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Occam. - 30 January 2012 03:03 PM

I agree, but the problem with that is they would think, “Wow, that was so easy to convert these dumb atheists to creationism.  I’m going to stick around and convert them all to evangelical christians.”  vampire  LOL

Either that, or immediately go into the used car sales business.  LOL (Hope I didn’t offend any used car salesmen. Just kidding… )

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