Transgender Miss Universe

Here’s the where things get more complicated.  Men in women’s Miss Universe competitions. Do you agree with this?

Oy; maybe someone should check under the hood before preceeding any further.  If she/he looks convincingly female (everywhere), then compeating should be allowed.

Reading/skimming through this thread for the first time, a thought occurred to me:

A lot of the debate here and elsewhere about LGBT issues in society revolve around figuring out if and how to fit new sexual and gender roles into old institutions. These institutions (marriage, clubs/groups, athletics, etc.) all were created and evolved under the old views of sexual and gender orientation. Maybe what we really need to do, rather than trying to make the new views fit the old institutions, is to change or even ditch the institutions once it becomes apparent that they are incompatible with biological reality?

Someone suggested merging girl scouts and boy scouts into youth scouts. I happen to think that’s a great idea. As for athletic competition, if there is a need to segregate people, why not do it according to their physical abilities rather than gender? Sort of like weight classes in boxing.

These are tough issues. There is much to sort out. One thing we can’t do is deny the reality of what we are learning about our physiology simply because ti doesn’t fit the way we have been doing things, or with what we are “comfortable” with.

In sport, sorting people per their gender is sorting them per their physical (and mental) abilities. Men will always outperform women in most types of sport—except for the statistical abnormality here and there— because they are in general physically stronger and have more advanced spatial abilities.

And as much as I feel with somebody like Jenna Talackova for not being allowed to compete in Miss Universe, I agree she shouldn’t be allowed to participate. Jenna Talackova may feel she is a woman, but I don’t.

While I tend to agree with George, I do see a question.  Obviously a transgender person who is competing as a female must have had surgery, probably to restructure the genitals and certainly for breast augmentation.  How many other contestants have had breast augmentation, liposuction, nose jobs, lip changes, hormone treatments, etc?  So, my question is how much and which surgical modification is acceptable for such contests? 
Occam

Occam. - 27 March 2012 11:34 AM

While I tend to agree with George, I do see a question.  Obviously a transgender person who is competing as a female must have had surgery, probably to restructure the genitals and certainly for breast augmentation.  How many other contestants have had breast augmentation, liposuction, nose jobs, lip changes, hormone treatments, etc?  So, my question is how much and which surgical modification is acceptable for such contests? 
Occam

That’s an interesting point and one that really raises the question whether there should be any physical alterations done at all. Personally I believe that contestants should be based on their natural beauty with only the exception of make up.

Certainly off topic from girl scouts but since it came up, I think anyone should be allowed to participate in beauty contests. Why? Because they are a joke to begin with. They are anachronistic BS. They make an audience dumber for the experience.

traveler - 09 April 2012 04:39 AM

Certainly off topic from girl scouts but since it came up, I think anyone should be allowed to participate in beauty contests. Why? Because they are a joke to begin with. They are anachronistic BS. They make an audience dumber for the experience.

Excellent point traveler. I agree. On the other hand these things are privately run forms of entertainment and nothing more so the owners of these “shows” should be allowed to do whatever they want I think.

As far as allowing or not allowing surgical augmentation that is also entirely up to the owners/promoters. It’s an artificial contest to begin with ( seriously what the heck is the whole talent part of this about? Do we really care if the gorgeous girl on stage can juggle garden gnomes?). If they did decide to forbid any sort of augmentation exactly how are they going to enforce it. Is someone going to do a manual exam? What about collagen injections and botox?

The whole thing is a bit silly. Although I came down on the side of transgenders in the girl scout issue on this one I have to side with the pageant promoters. Bless their little hearts. World Peace Everyone

....and things yet again get more complicated. Any opinions on this one?

Breastfeeding

If this was a transgender male to female. Would you be bothered by him/her breastfeeding a baby? Not really breastfeeding since he/she originally was a boy, but doing the act.

ExMachina - 23 August 2012 11:49 PM

....and things yet again get more complicated. Any opinions on this one?

Breastfeeding

If this was a transgender male to female. Would you be bothered by him/her breastfeeding a baby? Not really breastfeeding since he/she originally was a boy, but doing the act.

I can assure you that any baby will not be interested in nursing for too long without payout. Secondly, with appropriate hormone treatment, you too can produce milk from YOUR nipples!

Secondly, with appropriate hormone treatment, you too can produce milk from YOUR nipples!

Great! Thanks Asanta. Leave it up to you to bend my mind into a pretzel. 

So that’s why the lord gave men nipples—because he knew that someday there’d be hormone treatment available.     

Occam

ExMachina - 23 August 2012 11:49 PM

....and things yet again get more complicated. Any opinions on this one?

Breastfeeding

If this was a transgender male to female. Would you be bothered by him/her breastfeeding a baby? Not really breastfeeding since he/she originally was a boy, but doing the act.

I would be bothered by it, but he/she has the right to do it regardless of my feelings.

Children are innocent, when they have a new idea its an innocent curious idea, generally.  Children don’t know if the idea is orthodox or not.  If some people are uncomfortable with transgendered people, that is normal.  But the people have their rights, so do recognize their rights.

The transgendered people are a normal part of humanity, that’s how they were born.  The transgendered people who I’ve known all seem to want to be a real woman, they want “to pass”, they want to be accepted by society, that’s an innocent expectation really.  They think of themselves as gender skeptics, saying things like, “gender is really just an illusion, it doesn’t really matter.”  I think that’s very surprising, its always been important to me.    They are completely different than the gays, there are some gay men who want to act like women, but they don’t want to be women.

I saw a documentary once about a medical study where the scientist froze, thinly sliced, and computer scanned the brains of men and women finding that the hippocampus of men was large, and of women were small.  Then he repeated the study with men who transgendered to women… guess what size the hippocampus was ((they were medium sized.))  Its just one of those differences that people are born with.

Transgendered people in the Girl Scouts… I suppose they have to right to be as narrow-minded, cruel, and ignorant as the Boy Scouts do.  :shrug:

The transgendered people do take hormones to look like that, though.