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Transgender boys in girl scouts.
Posted: 29 January 2012 12:28 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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So who is responsible for enforcement? Who do you trust to take your daughter in the back room so they can confirm that she doesn’t have a penis?

I want to call this sex-discrimination, rather than gender discrimination, because gender really doesn’t seem to matter to you, its really all about the junk. It seems that you really don’t believe in any kind of gender system, and that Sex is all that is.

Overall, it seems like a ridiculous standard to start with. This club is made for girls, but we’re not going to stop a boy if he wants to join. This seems like the appropriate attitude. I don’t understand why its such a big deal that someone wants to join a club.

As far as the ‘red herring’ thing, I think that’s a case-by-case basis thing. Maybe i’m a little open minded on the issue, but if i like someone enough buy them dinner, sit through a movie, and offer to take them home to my place, chances are i’m thinking about a long term relationship and I’d like them enough to overlook sex organs regardless of my sexual preference or expectation. We’d have a talk, sure, but in general, i don’t think there should be ‘social rules’ to handle these kinds of things, its an individual, case by case thing.

[ Edited: 29 January 2012 12:47 AM by Scndthe2nd ]
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Posted: 29 January 2012 12:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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You said this

i might actually agree with you—that a transgendered boy should not be in girl scouts, because that child hasn’t chosen to be acknowledged as a girl, but as a boy instead.


Now you’re saying this.

Scndthe2nd - 29 January 2012 12:28 AM

So who is responsible for enforcement? Who do you trust to take your daughter in the back room so they can confirm that she doesn’t have a penis?

I want to call this sex-discrimination, rather than gender discrimination, because gender really doesn’t seem to matter to you, its really all about the junk. It seems that you really don’t believe in any kind of gender system, and that Sex is all that is.

Overall, it seems like a ridiculous standard to start with. This club is made for girls, but we’re not going to stop a boy if he wants to join. This seems like the appropriate attitude. I don’t understand why its such a big deal that someone wants to join a club.

What the heck is with the flip flopping. Even if you changed your mind, why such a damning change of heart?

Who says anything about an enforcer? Just make it a rule, and if that rule is discovered to be in violation, deal with it appropriately. I had brought this up earlier, but I want to bring it up again. This really isn’t that big of an issue with me as maybe people think. If TG boys slip though the system and trick people into making them think they are girls, then so be it, but if other girls in the Girl Scouts are uncomfortable after discovering that they have a boy (not because he’s a TG) then that does become a problem.

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Posted: 29 January 2012 12:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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Prequalifier—Might.

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Posted: 29 January 2012 12:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
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Scndthe2nd - 29 January 2012 12:48 AM

Prequalifier—Might.


Yeah I caught that, but let’s say we have a boy that gets discovered within a troop, and many of the girls are uncomfortable due to it? Does that make it still ok?

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Posted: 29 January 2012 12:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
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As for being damning, I’m really not trying to be, its probably your fault for being interesting.

Why wouldn’t you just make a rule that a kid who makes other people uncomfortable wouldn’t be allowed to be in the group? What makes the sex/gender-issue so important that there has to be a sex-specific rule?

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Posted: 29 January 2012 12:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
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Why wouldn’t you just make a rule that a kid who makes other people uncomfortable wouldn’t be allowed to be in the group? What makes the sex/gender-issue so important that there has to be a sex-specific rule?

Why discriminate at all? Why not allow 45 year old men with a criminal history of violence join the ranks?

Sorry just going off the deep end.

You can’t make rules like that, because someone will cry discrimination and lawyer up.

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Posted: 29 January 2012 12:57 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
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You’re evading the issue. I’m about to write you off as having ‘old man syndrom’. You know ‘back in my day, there were boys and there were girls, and that was it; uphill both ways’ and all that.

So instead, you blatantly discriminate, and guarantee that people will lawyer up?

[ Edited: 29 January 2012 01:03 AM by Scndthe2nd ]
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Posted: 29 January 2012 01:02 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
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Scndthe2nd - 29 January 2012 12:57 AM

You’re evading the issue. I’m about to write you off as having ‘old man syndrom’. You know ‘back in my day, there were boys and there were girls, and that was it; uphill both ways’ and all that.

Writing people’s opinion because they don’t agree is the easiest way out for many people, but saying “old man syndrome” reminds me of the many dictators of the past who have used propaganda saying that everything that history has taught you is useless. Old people are useless. Just because it’s been in the traditions of the past, doesn’t default it to being wrong.

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Posted: 29 January 2012 01:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
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Scndthe2nd - 29 January 2012 12:57 AM

So instead, you blatantly discriminate, and guarantee that people will lawyer up?

What’s to discriminate? It’s the girl scouts, not the gender identity of being girls scouts.

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Posted: 29 January 2012 01:06 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
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Fuck it.

You’re an old man, you’re out of your comfort zone and you feel the need to push the people around you for it. And you called me Hitler on top of it.

That’s fine, your opinion doesn’t matter anymore. Go ahead, whine about the black kids with the gangs and the transgenders tricking all the youngin’s into thinkin’ they’re fine.

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Posted: 29 January 2012 01:09 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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Scndthe2nd - 29 January 2012 01:06 AM

Fuck it.

You’re an old man, you’re out of your comfort zone and you feel the need to push the people around you for it. And you called me Hitler on top of it.

That’s fine, your opinion doesn’t matter anymore. Go ahead, whine about the black kids with the gangs and the transgenders tricking all the youngin’s into thinkin’ they’re fine.

LOL I never called you Hitler. I related the fact that many dictators pit young against old philosophies in order to gain power. ie. Hiter, Mao Zedong, Kim il Sung…. Your method was to discredit my point of view by discrediting me as basically being an old fudd. (ad hominem)

Edit

I’ll make this easy on you. I’ll agree that TG boys should get to join the girl scouts if TG men can compete in the womens professional sports. No discrimination across the board and everyone’s happy. I don’t think it gets anymore new world thinking than that.

[ Edited: 29 January 2012 02:31 AM by ExMachina ]
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Posted: 29 January 2012 05:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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Scndthe2nd - 29 January 2012 01:06 AM

Fuck it.

You’re an old man, you’re out of your comfort zone and you feel the need to push the people around you for it. And you called me Hitler on top of it.

That’s fine, your opinion doesn’t matter anymore. Go ahead, whine about the black kids with the gangs and the transgenders tricking all the youngin’s into thinkin’ they’re fine.

Where did he call you Hitler?  Scndthe2nd, your criticisms are not making much sense.

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Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

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Posted: 29 January 2012 05:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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mid atlantic - 29 January 2012 05:19 AM
Scndthe2nd - 29 January 2012 01:06 AM

Fuck it.

You’re an old man, you’re out of your comfort zone and you feel the need to push the people around you for it. And you called me Hitler on top of it.

That’s fine, your opinion doesn’t matter anymore. Go ahead, whine about the black kids with the gangs and the transgenders tricking all the youngin’s into thinkin’ they’re fine.

Where did he call you Hitler?  Scndthe2nd, your criticisms are not making much sense.

Yeah, I’m starting to feel a little like age discrimination is going on here. LOL By Hitler himself none the less.

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Posted: 29 January 2012 06:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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Back to the world of sanity; Instead of creating a general rule, your solution is to blatantly discriminate.

I still don’t think you acknowledge gender as a social construct, but when you’re talking about ‘boys’ or ‘girls’ you’re talking about sex. I think the perspective shapes your entire opinion on the TG issue.

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Posted: 29 January 2012 09:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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Scndthe2nd - 29 January 2012 06:50 PM

Back to the world of sanity; Instead of creating a general rule, your solution is to blatantly discriminate.

I still don’t think you acknowledge gender as a social construct, but when you’re talking about ‘boys’ or ‘girls’ you’re talking about sex. I think the perspective shapes your entire opinion on the TG issue.

I’m not as passionately against TG in Girl Scouts as I may actually come off. I admit that this is one of those extremely complex situations where you really need to weigh in all sides of the issue to come up with the best conclusion.

My only two concerns were:

A. Would girls knowing that a male with them in the scouts, distract them or bother them in any way to the point that the couldn’t feel free to open up and enjoy themselves. This is not inclusive of prejudices against TG’s.

B. Accepting TG in female activities can be a slippery slope problem where womens professional sports could also be required to accept TG’s. 10 years from now I can be yelled at for thinking that male transgenders shouldn’t be in women’s professional sports and once again be ridiculed as being an closed minded, hateful person due to me not agreeing with them.

I don’t mind so much if people disagree with me, so much that they at least have the descency to not condmn me for it. It’s an equally intolorant attitude on both sides of an argument when one party insists that you agree with them.

[ Edited: 29 January 2012 09:42 PM by ExMachina ]
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