George - 22 February 2012 11:39 AM

I sound like a compabilitist now, since “being lucky” implies that Vyazma was able to quit as per his wishes. So be it. I’ll be a compabilitist for the day. Only today, though.

I agree about Free-will having no point in this discussion.  I didn’t know I had to be conscious of my every move.
I wasn’t lucky.  I just substitute one addiction for another one.  Nicotine comes in many forms.  Heck-addiction comes in many forms!

It’s like the Faymann peeling his onion: it’s up to you when you decide to stop. 

BTW, I think it’s “compabilitist,” not “compatibilist,” right? Or what is it?

George - 22 February 2012 11:58 AM

It’s like the Faymann peeling his onion: it’s up to you when you decide to stop. 

BTW, I think it’s “compabilitist,” not “compatibilist,” right? Or what is it?

The second one: compatibilist.  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compatibilism)

Take care,

Derek

Yeah, I did try to look it up. But I guess I couldn’t make sense of what I was actually reading. That word makes me dizzy. Thanks.

George - 22 February 2012 11:35 AM

Free will, the final frontier. If you, guys, want to drag free will into this, you might as well agree now that Vyazma was lucky to quit, and Gary wasn’t. I don’t see what else is there to discuss.

I don’t wish to discuss free will here George.

I pointed out that post 16 was an expression of belief in libertarian free will.

I have nothing to add.

Stephen

George - 22 February 2012 12:18 PM

Yeah, I did try to look it up. But I guess I couldn’t make sense of what I was actually reading. That word makes me dizzy. Thanks.

It derives from the essence of the word compatible.

traveler - 20 February 2012 12:05 PM

I’ve tried to give up alcohol many times. On numerous occasions I’ve tipped expensive alcohol down the sink, with the same idea in mind.

I’d stop for some time after doing that, so although I didn’t quit for good it worked in a way.

And then one day I did it and found myself going to buy more about 2 hours later.

Stephen

Damn! I hope you win that fight, Stephen. I know it’s a lifelong battle (not personally, fortunately).

On day 12 and feel great!

Totally different than before when I became dysfunctional. We’ll see.

Stephen

I agree about Free-will having no point in this discussion.  I didn’t know I had to be conscious of my every move.
I wasn’t lucky.  I just substitute one addiction for another one.  Nicotine comes in many forms.  Heck-addiction comes in many forms!

Speaking of which, I’m right in the middle of Sam Harris’s book “Free Will” and it’s making me feel very uncomfortable. One always believes that humans have free will but Harris’s contention is that it doesn’t actually exist to the microsecond. Much of what we do, say, believe and are addicted to is preprogramed into us. His allusions to serial killers are chilling. It’s an nteresting read though. I wonder how this would effect the legal system in the future? Probably not at all in the U.S. where we still have the death penalty. It makes you wonder why we do the things we do, I mean I drank (mostly beer), was a VERY heavy smoker, then later dropped these without any assistance from friends, family or self-help organization but am still addicted, to chocolate. A bag of M&M’s? Gone in a heartbeat; I m talking to the bottom of the bag in less than an hour. Free Will? I don’t know. I may go with Dennet on this one.

Cap’t Jack

I know it’s the wrong thread but since we are here I’ll respond once.

Thevillageatheist - 21 May 2012 06:16 AM

Speaking of which, I’m right in the middle of Sam Harris’s book “Free Will” and it’s making me feel very uncomfortable.

He takes the view because apart from believing it’s true believes the consequences are good, worth bearing in mind, if it makes you feel uncomfortable you might be mistaken.

I wonder how this would effect the legal system in the future? Probably not at all in the U.S. where we still have the death penalty.

If people didn’t believe in free will they would have a very different attitude to those who were to be punished, understanding that they were unlucky to have the past they had in contrast with the sense of deservedness people actually feel they have.

They would be more inclined to want to improve the system if possible. How much harsh punishment works and how much is counter productive? They’d want to know and just like with dog training would want to look for better ways. Harsh treatment might train a dog well but we still prefer to do it differently once we know there are better kinder ways and the dog doesn’t deserve it.

Sam Harris doesn’t disagree with Dennett b.t.w, Dennett is talking about a different version of free will.

Stephen

If people didn’t believe in free will they would have a very different attitude to those who were to be punished, understanding that they were unlucky to have the past they had in contrast with the sense of deservedness people actually feel they have

THat’s a bit self evident don’t you think? It definitely depends on which side of the law you are on. Ex. You’re setting on a jury deciding the fate of an accused rapist as opposed to actually being the accused. Harris’s contention is that given the same set of circumstances, the the juror would behave the same as the accused rapist.

They would be more inclined to want to improve the system if possible. How much harsh punishment works and how much is counter productive? They’d want to know and just like with dog training would want to look for better ways. Harsh treatment might train a dog well but we still prefer to do it differently once we know there are better kinder ways and the dog doesn’t deserve it

What you’re describing is the classic positive v. neagtive reinforcement. It works well on animals but I’m not sure you would see the same results from a psychopath. Their behavior is pre-set by (dare I say it???) a combination of nature and nurture.

Sam Harris doesn’t disagree with Dennett b.t.w, Dennett is talking about a different version of free will

I must have misunderstood Harris’ statement here. He was addressing the three views on free will and It sounded to me that Dennet was a determinist as opposed to a Libertarian. I’ll read it again to be sure.

Cap’t Jack

Hi Cap’t Jack,

I’ve responded on a free will thread in the philosophy section.

Stephen