1 of 31
1
Is Atheism a Dodge?
Posted: 10 February 2012 12:12 PM   [ Ignore ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  102
Joined  2012-01-07

I’ve often wondered if atheism isn’t simply an existential dodge. I mean, it is very hard to figure out what one’s purpose is in life. It takes a lot of prayer, and frankly, two-way communication with God to understand why one was created in the first place. After that, one has all the pressure and guilt involved in not living up to that purpose—which of course is the instinctual drive to accomplish it.

But if there is no purpose inherent in our existence, then there is no pressure, there is no “sin” of not doing enough to fulfill it, everyone is equal (as merely conscious dirt), and death brings a welcome annihilation.

It seems to me then that atheism is simply the easy way out.

By all means, correct me if I’m wrong.

 Signature 

Then Jesus said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled; you believe in God. Believe also in Me. (VGJC 44:17)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 12:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4472
Joined  2008-08-14

It’s sad that anyone would have to address your question in the context of the possibilty that god exists.  It’s unfair and it’s like reasoning with children.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 12:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15358
Joined  2006-02-14

Well, if avoiding childish fairy tales is the ‘easy way out’, I’ll be happy taking the easy way, thank you very much.

OTOH if you want to have a hard time just for the sake of it, why not try a real religion like the religion of ancient Judaism (which in fact Jesus believed). First you have to set up that tabernacle though, in Jerusalem, and start animal sacrifice.

But on one thing you’re wrong: the “welcome annihilation” comes with those who accept the fairy tales, which promise them ... what, it’s not entirely clear. But anyway lots of vague, confused stories about what a great place heaven is. If it’s a great place, I assume you welcome it.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 12:30 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1201
Joined  2009-05-10
Egor - 10 February 2012 12:12 PM

I’ve often wondered if atheism isn’t simply an existential dodge. I mean, it is very hard to figure out what one’s purpose is in life. It takes a lot of prayer, and frankly, two-way communication with God to understand why one was created in the first place. After that, one has all the pressure and guilt involved in not living up to that purpose—which of course is the instinctual drive to accomplish it.

But if there is no purpose inherent in our existence, then there is no pressure, there is no “sin” of not doing enough to fulfill it, everyone is equal (as merely conscious dirt), and death brings a welcome annihilation.

It seems to me then that atheism is simply the easy way out.

By all means, correct me if I’m wrong.

You are wrong.

No inherent purpose in life doesn’t mean we can’t give it our own purpose and therefore our own pressure.

Wouldn’t death be more welcome for you since you get to go to heaven?

Atheism is not the easy way out. You cease to exist when you die. You have to actually think about what’s moral and what’s not. There is no reference book you can use to guide your life. You have to come to terms with uncertainty. How the hell is it a dodge to face reality head-on rather than hide in the comfort of the good book?

 Signature 

“What people do is they confuse cynicism with skepticism. Cynicism is ‘you can’t change anything, everything sucks, there’s no point to anything.’ Skepticism is, ‘well, I’m not so sure.’” -Bill Nye

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 12:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2172
Joined  2007-04-26
Egor - 10 February 2012 12:12 PM

I’ve often wondered if atheism isn’t simply an existential dodge. I mean, it is very hard to figure out what one’s purpose is in life. It takes a lot of prayer, and frankly, two-way communication with God to understand why one was created in the first place. After that, one has all the pressure and guilt involved in not living up to that purpose—which of course is the instinctual drive to accomplish it.

But if there is no purpose inherent in our existence, then there is no pressure, there is no “sin” of not doing enough to fulfill it, everyone is equal (as merely conscious dirt), and death brings a welcome annihilation.

It seems to me then that atheism is simply the easy way out.

By all means, correct me if I’m wrong.

This keeps coming up again and again with believers. Why do you need some all powerful entity to give your life meaning. Just because there was no conscious purpose behind your birth does not mean your life would be meaningless. For an atheist, life has the meaning you give it, not the artificial meaning that someone else says it should have. We derive meaning through thoughtful consideration. What makes our life better and betters the lives of those around us. Its not unlike the meaning that religious followers are trying to find except hat we are doing it because logic and reason dictate that it is the right thing to do. Not because someone with a funny hat and a fat book in their hand tells us its the right thing to do. Unlike believers, our desire to do the right thing is genuine and not motivated by a fear of retribution or eternal damnation.

Atheists arent taking the easy way out. We don’t have to live up to the expectations of some imaginary creator ( which are really the expectations that a bunch of humans wrote down rather than a devine creator), but we do have to live up to our own expectations. Unlike a non-existent creator, a very real disappointment in ourselves can be a much more powerful motivator if we don’t meet our own expectations.

I;ve asked this before but I’ll ask it again. Are believers really so hedonistic and shallow that they are afraid they would totally run amok without a Daddy figure telling them what to do. It makes me think that most believers have the maturity level of a 10 year old or less.

 Signature 

For every complex problem there is a solution that is simple, obvious,.... and just plain wrong

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 12:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Administrator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  15358
Joined  2006-02-14

Macgyver makes a good point. The fact that there’s some powerful guy in the sky makes no difference as to the supposed “meaning” of one’s life. Anyone’s life always and only means what they and others make of it. Nothing more.

 Signature 

Doug

-:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:- -:—:-

El sueño de la razón produce monstruos

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 12:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9301
Joined  2006-08-29

I think people who believe that without a god we would be a mere conscious dirt, are better off believing their fairy tales. From a personal experience as a father and a human being, I believe that children and Christians sometimes need a dose of naïveté to compensate for their failed (or not yet fully developed in children) moral compass.

[ Edited: 10 February 2012 12:58 PM by George ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 01:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2665
Joined  2011-04-24

Well,spiritual belief could also be seen as an existential dodge,although I’m not sure how it would be possible to dodge your “existential feelings”.  To begin with,we don’t choose to be atheists or believers,that is an illusion. An indifferent universe is easy for some of us to accept;the reason for that essentially comes down to biology.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 01:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3052
Joined  2011-11-04

Egor:  ..But if there is no purpose inherent in our existence, then there is no pressure, there is no “sin” of not doing enough to fulfill it, everyone is equal (as merely conscious dirt), and death brings a welcome annihilation.

Choose your purpose.  Live the very finite life that you have in the way that is to your preference without adversely effecting others.  Then you will most likely not welcome the annihilation of death unless things go very badly for you.

Most well socialized people choose to devote some of their life to helping others, even if it is only loved ones.  And they are generally careful not to harm others in any significant way.  If you are not well socialized, then taking on a set of religious rules might be best for you and for society in general, as long as you are not geared toward the psychopathic fringe that some religions have.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 01:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3121
Joined  2008-04-07

Egor, if you need “pressure” to do the right thing, then keep your pressure. If you can think for yourself about what is right and what is not, then welcome to our world.

 Signature 

Turn off Fox News - Bad News For America
(Atheists are myth understood)

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  270
Joined  2011-09-13

If anything is a “doge’ its religion, especially any religion that believes in a creative god that is caring.  In any event I do believe that at best, religion is simply a crutch defense mechanism that some humans rely on to get them through the day.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 03:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  1758
Joined  2007-10-22

I have purposes in life and I am an atheist.

One of these purposes is to make people see through the outdated, devisive, hate-filled, and silly beliefs of religous preachers like yourself.

 Signature 

Gary the Human

All the Gods and all religions are created by humans, to meet human needs and accomplish human ends.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 04:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
Jr. Member
Avatar
Rank
Total Posts:  10
Joined  2012-02-03

It takes a lot of prayer, and frankly, two-way communication with God to understand why one was created in the first place.

Two-way communication with God? Could you please elaborate on this a bit?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 05:39 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

Boy, you have no understanding of how other people think, do you, Egor?  As a lifelong atheist I have to have stronger morals that god-believers because if I do something unethical, I can’t be forgiven by some fairytale in the sky - I have to work to make restitution myself and avoid doing it again.  When I was young I developed my own purposes and goals.  One of these is to help others whenever I can and to avoid hurting others if possible. 

I realize that when I die, my mind will disappear and my body decay.  However, I’ll die happy, knowing that I’ve left humanity and the world a tiny bit better than it would have been had I not been born.  And, why should I welcome annihilation?  I know it’s inevitable, but it just means that someone else will pick up where I left off.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 05:43 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3119
Joined  2011-08-15

Are you saying that after all this time you still haven’t discovered your purpose in life? Are you still seeking a purpose or have you stopped and are waiting for Yahweh the mountain god to direct you? If you’re still fervently looking be advised that you will eventually outgrow religion and once that happens you will never be able to return to the security of that imaginary world. You will exhaust every argument in your philosophical arsenal to bolster your belief and finally resign yourself to the truth; you’re gonna die and that’ll be the end of ya so accomplish what you can in the only life you’ve been given by nature and be happy to be a part of it all. Tempus Fugit.


Cap’t Jack

 Signature 

One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.

Thomas Paine

Profile
 
 
Posted: 10 February 2012 05:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  102
Joined  2012-01-07
VYAZMA - 10 February 2012 12:17 PM

It’s sad that anyone would have to address your question in the context of the possibilty that god exists.  It’s unfair and it’s like reasoning with children.

You don’t have to address it at all, and you haven’t. So perhaps I’m too much like a child for you to reason with, or maybe you just can’t handle the topic. I betting on the latter.

dougsmith - 10 February 2012 12:27 PM

But on one thing you’re wrong: the “welcome annihilation” comes with those who accept the fairy tales, which promise them ... what, it’s not entirely clear. But anyway lots of vague, confused stories about what a great place heaven is. If it’s a great place, I assume you welcome it.

I welcome heaven; I don’t welcome annihilation, but atheists must welcome it. What would be the alternative? An eternal life? In a chaotic, purposeless universe? Unless you could eventually transform into God, that would be a good description of hell.

domokato - 10 February 2012 12:30 PM

You are wrong.

No inherent purpose in life doesn’t mean we can’t give it our own purpose and therefore our own pressure.

How can you give yourself a purpose? Either you have a purpose or you don’t. You could pretend to have a purpose, but that would be kind of pathetic and hypocritical if you were an atheist. And even if you do put yourself under a self-imposed pressure, you certainly have no requirement to. That would be like auditing a college course and doing everything you could to get an A in it.

Wouldn’t death be more welcome for you since you get to go to heaven?

Atheism is not the easy way out. You cease to exist when you die. You have to actually think about what’s moral and what’s not. There is no reference book you can use to guide your life. You have to come to terms with uncertainty. How the hell is it a dodge to face reality head-on rather than hide in the comfort of the good book?

Because you don’t have to have any morality. You can be moral if you want to be, but if atheism is true, there’s no real reason to be moral unless you can benefit from it somehow during your physical life. If you were like Mother Teresa, fine, so long as it benefited you. If you were like John Wayne Gaycee, fine. It really doesn’t matter because it’s all dust to dust anyway.

I’m not saying you’re not a generally moral person; I’m saying if atheism is true, you don’t have to be. And if you are, there’s no “higher” state of being in that. Because it’s just a chaotic universe with no one watching.

George - 10 February 2012 12:56 PM

I think people who believe that without a god we would be a mere conscious dirt, are better off believing their fairy tales. From a personal experience as a father and a human being, I believe that children and Christians sometimes need a dose of naïveté to compensate for their failed (or not yet fully developed in children) moral compass.

Oh, you’re quite right. I’m not a good person and would not be if God were not watching. That’s for sure. But one thing I know about you—you’re not good either. You say you are, but I know you’re not, because no one is. Everyone has faults and failings. But if atheism is true, you’re faults and failings don’t mean a hill of beans.

And here’s another thing I know, that you know as well but won’t admit to, if atheism is true, we have no immortal soul. Even if we have a soul, if atheism is true, it dissipates upon the death of the brain, and everything it’s about, and everything it was worth, and all it’s value dissipates with it.

Fortunately, that’s not the case.

 Signature 

Then Jesus said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled; you believe in God. Believe also in Me. (VGJC 44:17)

Profile
 
 
   
1 of 31
1