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Is Atheism a Dodge?
Posted: 21 February 2012 11:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 256 ]
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Harry Canyon-

This is the internet. Since we aren’t speaking face-to-face, perhaps it’s better to ask for clarification of comments (we perceive/interpret a particular way) instead of just assuming we know what the original poster meant by their statements? And when we do ask for clarification, if the responder’s explanation doesn’t fit with what we thought they meant, and we hold to our previous conviction anyway, aren’t we being ideologues?

1.  We are all using the English language here- a system of letters and words in which thoughts and messages are communicated quite efficiently. Even in the form of sarcasm, double entendre, tounge and cheek comments, veiled threats, etc…
2.  To bolster number 1. above: 2 other members immediately recognized that crap for what it was. The administrator and a Forum member in good standing with some time in here.  They too quickly gleaned the data packets sent out in Egor’s English Language transmission.
3.  The fact that Egor is a mindless moron who invented his own religion and then comes to an agnostic forum to proslytise his “faith” doesn’t help his cause with me either.  By that I flatly mean he has a higher propensity for racism.
4. One other subject I didn’t use to support my claim, but one which could be the most relevant, is the fact that if you go back and read Egor’s defense you will see that he quickly in succession listed two separate explanations for his comments.  Nevermind the fact that those reasons were so esoteric and hitherto unseen in the meanderings of Forum inter-communications.
5.  For what it’s worth…I’ve been raised by a racist step-father, I’ve been exposed to blatant racism my whole life.  At work, in the military, at schools, etc…I’ve recently been trained to recognize and report racism in the workplace.  I’ve attended classes by administrations on the subject of racism in a variety of settings.
Big deal right?  No not really. I’m sure a handful, if not more of the people here in this forum have lived and worked side by side with racists.(or people who are ignorant enough to use racist epitaphs and ideas as anecdote and humor etc…racism!  The endemic kind.)
Yes,  racism is pretty easy to recognize.  I myself have seen the touge-in-cheek, veiled kind of racism Egor displayed a million goddamn times!
A million goddamned times!

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Posted: 21 February 2012 03:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 257 ]
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VYAZMA - 21 February 2012 11:51 AM

Yes,  racism is pretty easy to recognize.  I myself have seen the touge-in-cheek, veiled kind of racism Egor displayed a million goddamn times!
A million goddamned times!

Apparently not to everyone, as I honestly didn’t see it that way. However, I’m certainly willing to admit to my naiveté on this subject.

Take care,

Derek

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Posted: 22 February 2012 10:49 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 258 ]
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harry canyon - 21 February 2012 03:32 PM
VYAZMA - 21 February 2012 11:51 AM

Yes,  racism is pretty easy to recognize.  I myself have seen the touge-in-cheek, veiled kind of racism Egor displayed a million goddamn times!
A million goddamned times!

Apparently not to everyone, as I honestly didn’t see it that way. However, I’m certainly willing to admit to my naiveté on this subject.

Take care,

Derek

No harm no foul.  I’m just springboarding off of your comments.

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Posted: 25 March 2012 06:08 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 259 ]
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Egor - 10 February 2012 12:12 PM

I’ve often wondered if atheism isn’t simply an existential dodge.

No I think it’s closer to a Rolls Royce or Jaguar.

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Posted: 25 March 2012 06:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 260 ]
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TrevorC - 25 March 2012 06:08 AM
Egor - 10 February 2012 12:12 PM

I’ve often wondered if atheism isn’t simply an existential dodge.

No I think it’s closer to a Rolls Royce or Jaguar.

lol-049.gif

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Posted: 25 March 2012 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 261 ]
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Egor - 10 February 2012 12:12 PM

I’ve often wondered if atheism isn’t simply an existential dodge. I mean, it is very hard to figure out what one’s purpose is in life.

I would recommend an interesting Caltech commencement address (1978, Nobel Prize Winner Max Delbruck)
http://calteches.library.caltech.edu/572/4/arrow.pdf
You might find his generous treatment of religion misleading; his son clarified that he was not religious but had a respect for all religions
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/exploration/text/index.php?action=view_section&id=1174&story_id=282&images;=
(that address notes that Dietrich Bonhoffer was a neighbor of the Delbrucks in Berlin)

No I don’t think Atheism is a ‘dodge’—I think atheism is honest.

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Posted: 26 March 2012 02:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 262 ]
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VYAZMA - 21 February 2012 11:51 AM

Harry Canyon-

Yes,  racism is pretty easy to recognize.  I myself have seen the touge-in-cheek, veiled kind of racism Egor displayed a million goddamn times!
A million goddamned times!

Why don’t you worry about something worth worrying about?

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Then Jesus said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled; you believe in God. Believe also in Me. (VGJC 44:17)

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Posted: 26 March 2012 04:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 263 ]
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Egor is right, Vyazma: he isn’t worth wasting your time worrying about.

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You cannot have a rational conversation with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

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Posted: 26 March 2012 04:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 264 ]
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DarronS - 26 March 2012 04:18 AM

Egor is right, Vyazma: he isn’t worth wasting your time worrying about.

Besides, if egor is correct he is going to hell anyway.  smile

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Posted: 28 March 2012 06:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 265 ]
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Egor - 10 February 2012 12:12 PM

I’ve often wondered if atheism isn’t simply an existential dodge. I mean, it is very hard to figure out what one’s purpose is in life. It takes a lot of prayer, and frankly, two-way communication with God to understand why one was created in the first place. After that, one has all the pressure and guilt involved in not living up to that purpose—which of course is the instinctual drive to accomplish it.

But if there is no purpose inherent in our existence, then there is no pressure, there is no “sin” of not doing enough to fulfill it, everyone is equal (as merely conscious dirt), and death brings a welcome annihilation.

It seems to me then that atheism is simply the easy way out.

By all means, correct me if I’m wrong.

“Then Jesus said, “Do not let your hearts be troubled; you believe in God. Believe also in Me”

The Bible says that Jesus said “Do not let your hearts be troubled;you believe in God. Believe also in Me”.  I believe that is from John 14:1. 

It goes on to say that everyone who does not believe in me goes to the Motel 666 of the afterlife. 

“Oh, you’re quite right. I’m not a good person and would not be if God were not watching. That’s for sure. But one thing I know about you—you’re not good either. You say you are, but I know you’re not, because no one is. Everyone has faults and failings. But if atheism is true, you’re faults and failings don’t mean a hill of beans.” 

I think there is a difference between being a “good”  person and being a “perfect” person.  You could be a good person and not be a perfectly good person.  If the fear of God watching you is the what keeps you from being a theif, a rapist, or a murderer then by all means keep believing that God is A Cosmic Big Brother.  If Fear of going to the Motel 666 of the afterlife is all that prevents you from committing criminal anti-social acts, then by all means keep believing that the Cosmic Santa Claus. 

If the only reason that you act like a decent, compassionate human being is because you hope that the Cosmic Santa Claus will reward you with the Presidental Suite in the Trump Tower of the afterlife.  Then by all means keep believing. 

“And here’s another thing I know, that you know as well but won’t admit to, if atheism is true, we have no immortal soul. Even if we have a soul, if atheism is true, it dissipates upon the death of the brain, and everything it’s about, and everything it was worth, and all it’s value dissipates with it.”

I do not know wether I have an immortal soul.  Maybe I do, maybe I don’t.  I do not believe that I have one.  I know I have a brain.  That I have a brain is not a matter of belief, it is a fact.  It is something I know, I know that you also have a brain.  That is a matter of fact, of knowing and not of belief. 

I do believe that virtue, doing good, acting with kindness and compassion is its own reward.  I do believe that whatever acts you commit have consquences that carry on beyond the individual act itself. 

I do know that I do not do enough to help others and that I have done things I have regretted and felt guilty about.  But overall I think I have done more good than bad. 

“Fortunately, that’s not the case.” 

It is not forunate if you spend eternity in the Motel 666 of the afterlife. And if you and Christianity is correct that well be the overwhelming majority of people. 
It appears to me that the purpose of this life is too get into the next life.

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Posted: 28 March 2012 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 266 ]
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Egor, while I haven’t been following this thread the whole time, in part because your posts simply make no sense, I wonder if you’ve studied other religions, such as Taoism and Buddhism or if you have studied other philosophies, such as humanism.  There is plenty of purpose without believing in a deity.  One doesn’t have to pray to figure it out or even be Xian for that matter.  Many older philosophies, such as Taoism and some forms of Buddhism, don’t share your deity or even a belief in a deity at all and they’ve always had a purpose in life.  Humanism, a more modern philosophy, has had a purpose too.  There is plenty of meaning without believing in a supernatural.  We have to create our own meaning and purpose, not outsource it to something that was created in the minds of humans, originally primitive human beings.

Secondly, when you ask about worrying about something and it’s worth, what is it you mean?  I worry about other people, which I find a worthy cause, because I care about people.  I worry about other animals, because they too are just as important.  I care about the environment.  However, not all atheists share my concerns about the environment or other animals or at least not to the same extent.  There is no god who will save us.  We have to save ourselves.  These two statements are in the Humanist Manifesto and I do believe that.  Human beings must strive to better ourselves and society.  There is no god who will do it for us, so prayer is just a waste of time.  We have to do things ourselves for there to be any change.  However, if prayer you calms you and helps you psychologically, that’s fine, but that is about all it will do.  Other than that, your question about worry about something that is worth worrying about is meaningless.  What is worthy of worrying about and worth getting your blood pressure up to you, isn’t necessarily of value to others.

Also, there is no such thing as sin.  That is a human concept, just as a god, heaven, and hell are.  However, this does not mean one cannot make a mistake or do harm.  For me, it would be wrong to intentionally do a human or another animal harm.  That and I seem to have far too many empathy neurons.

One does not need to outsource such things to some mythical deity, created by humans, though.  All of this lies solely with the human and is all part of the human condition.

As for whatever the supposed racism comment was, there is only one race- the human race, so it is just plain stupid to be racist, because we are all human.

As for creation, I’ll make it short and sweet- try studying Evolution, instead of taking your information, which is non-scientific, from the Bible.

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“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

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Posted: 28 March 2012 10:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 267 ]
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No, it’s a Chevrolet that thinks it’s a Porsche.

psik

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Posted: 29 March 2012 11:04 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 268 ]
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Why don’t you worry about something worth worrying about?

Racism isn’t something to worry about? Dig up your Oujia Board and ring up the people who were lynched by the Ku Klux Klan. I think they just might have a different opinion about that which they would like to discuss with you!

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Posted: 29 March 2012 01:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 269 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 29 March 2012 11:04 AM

Why don’t you worry about something worth worrying about?

Racism isn’t something to worry about? Dig up your Oujia Board and ring up the people who were lynched by the Ku Klux Klan. I think they just might have a different opinion about that which they would like to discuss with you!

...or the Jewish population of Europe either during WWII or any of the Inquisitions, the Armenians, the Hutus and Tutsis, the American and Australian Indigenous populations….I’m sure they would all disagree with your assessment.

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Posted: 29 March 2012 01:52 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 270 ]
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or an unarmed black teenager in Fl.

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All the Gods and all religions are created by humans, to meet human needs and accomplish human ends.

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