9 of 22
9
Let’s Have a Dialog—ie., a Conversation, not a debate—About the god-hypothesis
Posted: 30 April 2012 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30
mid atlantic - 30 April 2012 03:52 AM

... Dr. James Braid (surgeon) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Braid_(surgeon)  developed the idea of hypnosis based on the work of
=============================
Franz Anton Mesmer May 23, 1734 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesmer
========================
The great Canadian doctor, William Osler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Osler

MA, as you say, all of those individuals took risks. Except for Mesmer perhaps; they were not bringing the supernatural into science; they were actively proving the previous practice’s wrong. They were innovators,  at a time when others were not. But that doesn’t apply to spiritualist scientists.

This reminds me of PNEUMATOLOGY—the study of the Spirit. I think of myself as student of pneumatology—a philosophy, which World Book Dictionary points out, was taught in all the European universities in the 1500’s.

Since the early 1960’s I have been advocating that we not forget that pneumatology was the mother of modern psychology; that serious research, therefore, be done on the nature of the human spirit, in cooperation with the research already being done by psychologists. Anything I know about it is because I stand on the shoulders of pneumatological giants, like

MATTHEW MEAD (1630?–1699) Was a Congregational (that is, independent) minister.
He had thirteen children, of whom the physician Richard Mead was the eleventh. An elder son, Samuel, was a fellow-student with Calamy at Utrecht in 1687; published at Utrecht a ‘Disputatio,’ 1686, an ‘Exercitatio,’ 1687, and an ‘Oratio,’ 1689; in 1694 he was an evening lecturer at Salters’ Hall, but was not ordained, and became a chancery practitioner.
=================
RICHARD MEAD (11 August 1673 – 16 February 1754) was an English physician. His work, A Short Discourse concerning Pestilential Contagion, and the Method to be used to prevent it (1720), was of historic importance in the understanding of transmissible diseases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Mead#Religious_views
======================
And Isaac Newton (1642 – 1727])
===============

FRANZ ANTON MESMER

Mesmer was born in the village of Iznang, on the shore of Lake Constance in Swabia, Germany a son of master forester Anton Mesmer (1701—after 1747) and his wife Maria/Ursula (1701—1770), née Michel. After studying at the Jesuit universities of Dillingen and Ingolstadt, he took up the study of medicine at the University of Vienna in 1759.

In 1766 he published a doctoral dissertation with the Latin title De planetarum influxu in corpus humanum (On the Influence of the Planets on the Human Body), which discussed the influence of the Moon and the planets on the human body and on disease. This was not medical astrology—relying largely on Newton’s theory of the tides—Mesmer expounded on certain tides in the human body that might be accounted for by the movements of the sun and moon. Evidence assembled by Frank A. Pattie suggests that Mesmer plagiarized his dissertation from a work by Richard Mead, an eminent English physician and Newton’s friend. That said, in Mesmer’s day doctoral theses were not expected to be original ...

In 1785 Mesmer left Paris. In 1790 he was in Vienna again to settle the estate of his deceased wife Maria Anna. When he sold his house in Vienna in 1801 he was in Paris. The creator of mesmerism sympathized with many of the ideas the revolution had highlighted. The consequence thereof is that he had to forgo the plan of settling back in Wien, since he was viewed as politically suspect, and he retraced his steps to Paris several times.

In 1802, while in that city again, he asked for and was awarded a yearly allowance of 3000 florins as compensation for the money he had lost in the Revolution. In 1803, some of his friends solicited him to open up a new establishment devoted to the implementation of magnetic treatments, but Mesmer turned down their request. The war had consigned him to inaction; several friends of his had died, and he decided instead to take up residence in Switzerland. In 1809, he penned a letter to one of his friends, wherein he mentioned to him that he was spending a happy life of quiet and anonymity, untroubled by problems or by neighbours and people who could recognize him. He added in that missive, though, that he was still practicing his Art, and was always visited by plentiful patients, many of whom he would treat free of charge.

In the meantime, the Academy of Berlin formally acknowledged the validity of Mesmer’s ideas and dispatched Prof. Wolfart to him with a view to inviting him to move to Berlin in Germany. However, Mesmer, who was by then an old man, was no longer keen to travel. Prof. Wolfart accordingly collected his memories, all the way until Mesmer met his death in Switzerland, on 5 March 1815….....AFTER MESMER…

Very interesting!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesmer

Edited to change color to red.  Blue is reserved for official Moderator and Administrator input. See rules.

[ Edited: 30 April 2012 05:39 PM by Occam. ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 May 2012 01:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 122 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2585
Joined  2011-04-24
RevLGKing - 30 April 2012 01:48 PM
mid atlantic - 30 April 2012 03:52 AM

... Dr. James Braid (surgeon) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Braid_(surgeon)  developed the idea of hypnosis based on the work of
=============================
Franz Anton Mesmer May 23, 1734 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesmer
========================
The great Canadian doctor, William Osler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Osler

MA, as you say, all of those individuals took risks. Except for Mesmer perhaps; they were not bringing the supernatural into science; they were actively proving the previous practice’s wrong. They were innovators,  at a time when others were not. But that doesn’t apply to spiritualist scientists.

This reminds me of PNEUMATOLOGY—the study of the Spirit. I think of myself as student of pneumatology—a philosophy, which World Book Dictionary points out, was taught in all the European universities in the 1500’s.

Since the early 1960’s I have been advocating that we not forget that pneumatology was the mother of modern psychology; that serious research, therefore, be done on the nature of the human spirit, in cooperation with the research already being done by psychologists. Anything I know about it is because I stand on the shoulders of pneumatological giants, like

MATTHEW MEAD (1630?–1699) Was a Congregational (that is, independent) minister.
He had thirteen children, of whom the physician Richard Mead was the eleventh. An elder son, Samuel, was a fellow-student with Calamy at Utrecht in 1687; published at Utrecht a ‘Disputatio,’ 1686, an ‘Exercitatio,’ 1687, and an ‘Oratio,’ 1689; in 1694 he was an evening lecturer at Salters’ Hall, but was not ordained, and became a chancery practitioner.
=================
RICHARD MEAD (11 August 1673 – 16 February 1754) was an English physician. His work, A Short Discourse concerning Pestilential Contagion, and the Method to be used to prevent it (1720), was of historic importance in the understanding of transmissible diseases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Mead#Religious_views
======================
And Isaac Newton (1642 – 1727])
===============

FRANZ ANTON MESMER

Mesmer was born in the village of Iznang, on the shore of Lake Constance in Swabia, Germany a son of master forester Anton Mesmer (1701—after 1747) and his wife Maria/Ursula (1701—1770), née Michel. After studying at the Jesuit universities of Dillingen and Ingolstadt, he took up the study of medicine at the University of Vienna in 1759.

In 1766 he published a doctoral dissertation with the Latin title De planetarum influxu in corpus humanum (On the Influence of the Planets on the Human Body), which discussed the influence of the Moon and the planets on the human body and on disease. This was not medical astrology—relying largely on Newton’s theory of the tides—Mesmer expounded on certain tides in the human body that might be accounted for by the movements of the sun and moon. Evidence assembled by Frank A. Pattie suggests that Mesmer plagiarized his dissertation from a work by Richard Mead, an eminent English physician and Newton’s friend. That said, in Mesmer’s day doctoral theses were not expected to be original ...

In 1785 Mesmer left Paris. In 1790 he was in Vienna again to settle the estate of his deceased wife Maria Anna. When he sold his house in Vienna in 1801 he was in Paris. The creator of mesmerism sympathized with many of the ideas the revolution had highlighted. The consequence thereof is that he had to forgo the plan of settling back in Wien, since he was viewed as politically suspect, and he retraced his steps to Paris several times.

In 1802, while in that city again, he asked for and was awarded a yearly allowance of 3000 florins as compensation for the money he had lost in the Revolution. In 1803, some of his friends solicited him to open up a new establishment devoted to the implementation of magnetic treatments, but Mesmer turned down their request. The war had consigned him to inaction; several friends of his had died, and he decided instead to take up residence in Switzerland. In 1809, he penned a letter to one of his friends, wherein he mentioned to him that he was spending a happy life of quiet and anonymity, untroubled by problems or by neighbours and people who could recognize him. He added in that missive, though, that he was still practicing his Art, and was always visited by plentiful patients, many of whom he would treat free of charge.

In the meantime, the Academy of Berlin formally acknowledged the validity of Mesmer’s ideas and dispatched Prof. Wolfart to him with a view to inviting him to move to Berlin in Germany. However, Mesmer, who was by then an old man, was no longer keen to travel. Prof. Wolfart accordingly collected his memories, all the way until Mesmer met his death in Switzerland, on 5 March 1815….....AFTER MESMER…

Very interesting!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesmer

Edited to change color to red.  Blue is reserved for official Moderator and Administrator input. See rules.

  Pneumatology is the study of the human spirit?  If by “spirit” you mean human behavior, than biology is a much more accurate field, because it it demonstrable that our behavior is the result of our biological processes.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 01 May 2012 09:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 123 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30
mid atlantic - 01 May 2012 01:09 PM

...  Pneumatology is the study of the human spirit?  If by “spirit” you mean human behavior, than biology is a much more accurate field, because it it demonstrable that our behavior is the result of our biological processes.

I am sure you have heard of people who died of fright—the nocebo effect, which is the product of despair, fear, hatred and the like. Agreed? Then there is the opposite: the placebo effect. Where is the biology here?

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 May 2012 04:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 124 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2585
Joined  2011-04-24
RevLGKing - 01 May 2012 09:10 PM
mid atlantic - 01 May 2012 01:09 PM

...  Pneumatology is the study of the human spirit?  If by “spirit” you mean human behavior, than biology is a much more accurate field, because it it demonstrable that our behavior is the result of our biological processes.

I am sure you have heard of people who died of fright—the nocebo effect, which is the product of despair, fear, hatred and the like. Agreed? Then there is the opposite: the placebo effect. Where is the biology here?

  Quite a bit of research has been done on that;  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo    Essentially, our feelings are caused by our endocrine and nervous systems.  In some people, these systems can be manipulated to the point of healing and/or harm.  That is the placebo and nocebo effect in action.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 May 2012 02:29 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 125 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30

MA, as you say, “Quite a bit of research has been done ...” on the placebo-nocebo effect   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo.  Thanks for checking into this.

MA, IF YOU FEEL THE FOLLOWING IS TOO MUCH INFO for you, FEEL FREE TO SKIP IT—I put it here to have the info in one place.
Looking back to when I entered university,  http://www.mta.ca  in 1947: I have always felt very fortunate that I was accepted as a student of a small university, which began as a boys academy, in 1839. The founder was Charles Frederick Allison—a well-to-do merchant and boat-builder. A decade later, he built a Ladies’ College—attended by the grandmother of my wife. The Allison family were devout Methodists from Northern Ireland. Both of these institutions would pave the way for the creation of the degree-granting Mount Allison University that we know and love today. When I attended MTA there were 1200 students there. Now there are 2,500. In recent years, McLeans, Canada’s national magazine, as part of its survey of universities, gives MTA a top ranking.

From my beginning at MTA I took a deep interest in psychology, which was then a part of the department of philosophy. The department was led by Dr. Charles A. Baxter, Ph.D—a WW 2 vet , a graduate of the University of Toronto, but a truly down-to-earth human being. As befitting he was, originally, a farmer from central Ontario and dean of a men’s residence, which was an old and barn-like building and called The Barn. Of course, we students called him Barnie. But, out of respect, never to his face. Mount Allison University is in Sackville, N.B., just north of the border of Nova Scotia was, and is, a very unique place to study. For example, there were only 1,200 students when my wife and I were there. All the main buildings were on a small hill (the Mount) in the centre of a small town, near and it employed many of the people who lived there.  History and Facts
University Colours, Garnet & Gold. Team Name, Mounties. Number of Students ( Approximate), 2500. Student to faculty ratio, 16:1. Number of residences, 13 ...
http://www.mta.ca/apply/whymta/history.html

The main highway and the CNR—trans-Canada—train station was within walking distance. Once in town, there was no need for students, who lived mostly in residence, to own a car. And note this: One could then earn a four-year degree—BA., BSc., etc for $4.000.00, which included tuition and residence costs.
From MTA, I went on to seminary in Halifax to complete post graduate studies to be ordained a minister of the United Church of Canada, The Atlantic School of Theology—http://astheology.ns.ca/  . When I graduated in 1953 I owed the BIG debt of $125.00, which my new wife—already working as teacher as a teacher.
Both 23, our first assignment was to go, by air, from Moncton, N.B., to Goose Bay, Labrador. Near the Goose Air Base we found 115 families living—many in shack-like buildings, including the church and the place we were to live—as squatters. Other than the church-operated school and Nursing Station there was little or no organization, only chaos. Our job was to help bring some order of this chaos. Quite a story. We made a good start. Take a look at it now. The minister—newly married—who succeeded me, when we went to Boston, was a friend of ours.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Valley-Goose_Bay
From there, thanks to a two-7ear scholarship I did postgraduate studies at the School of Theology (linked with Harvard)  of Boston University. 

It was at Boston (1954-1955) that the seed of pneumatology—sown in the theological garden cultivated by some very bright and rational thinkers—began to germinate, take root and reach toward the sun of consciousness.
THE RE-BIRTH OF PNEUMATOLOGY
Before I concocted the term ‘pneumatology’—not being aware that it was already in the large dictionaries—I was already interested in reading anything I could find that had to do with what was then commonly-called “Holism”  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holism  (contrast with reductionism—bits-and-pieces approach)  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductionism .
I was particularly impressed by the writings of the British Methodist minister and psychologist, the Rev. Leslie D. Weatherhead, Ph.D., author of the landmark book PSYCHOLOGY, RELIGION AND HEALING (1950). In his come-one-come-all kind of church, City Temple, in the heart of London, England, he set up a clinic where medial doctors, psychiatrists and clergy agreed to work together holistically to help all in need, especially the poor and needy.

I soon began to see the following possibility: The integration of philosophy, pneumatology, psychology, theology and the ART of living—physically, mentally and spiritually.
PNEUMATHERAPY—For me, it is what I call, the spiritual use of hypnotic technique
Beginning in 1964, I started giving a series of lectures, which and went on, in Toronto and beyond, including the USA and England, for decades. With the help of the media, I eventually succeeded in getting the then arcane words, pneuma and pneumatology (already in large dictionaries) into the media and in use by a few. Based on this experience I coined ‘pneumatherapy’—to the best of my knowledge, I am the first to use it.  However, if there are others who have come up with the same word with the same meaning, I have no problem sharing, or stepping aside. [More on this what I consider to be an important theme ...]  BTW, I do have a license to do hypnotherapy. The specific license was given in Pa., USA. 
===========

Profile
 
 
Posted: 02 May 2012 02:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 126 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2768
Joined  2011-11-04

When you say “the spiritual use of hypnotic technique”, I have an idea of what you mean by hypnotic technique, but can you state in behavioral terms, what you mean by “spiritual use of”?

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 May 2012 09:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 127 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30
TimB - 02 May 2012 02:37 PM

When you say “the spiritual use of hypnotic technique”, I have an idea of what you mean by hypnotic technique, but can you state in behavioral terms, what you mean by “spiritual use of”?

What is a “behavioral term”?

Let us have a dialogue about how we feel about, and use, words, like, mind, human being, spirit, soul, conscious being, consciousness, conscience (from Latin with + know) and the like.

BTW, I have never accepted the master-subject approach of the early advocates for hypnotism. Braid, who first concocted the word,  later expressed his misgiving about the use of the word, hypnosis (from Greek for sleep). He tried to replace it with ‘mono-ideism’

[ Edited: 05 May 2012 10:00 PM by RevLGKing ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 05 May 2012 11:35 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 128 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5169
Joined  2010-06-16

Quoting RLGK:

Let us have a dialogue about how we feel about, and use, words, like, mind, human being, spirit, soul, conscious being, consciousness, conscience (from Latin with + know) and the like.

    WHY???  That’s what dictionaries are for.  I use the non-theistic words according to their definition, and don’t bother using the theistic one like spirit and soul.  I like most words because they are excellent tools that allow me to connect with others.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 May 2012 03:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 129 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30
Occam. - 05 May 2012 11:35 PM

... and (I) don’t bother using the theistic one like spirit and soul… to connect with others. Occam

Interesting. I wonder why! The last time I checked, spirit and soul are in the dictionary. Also, I have no problem connecting with them, and them with, mind.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 May 2012 05:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 130 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2279
Joined  2007-07-05
RevLGKing - 17 February 2012 04:58 PM

All the Gods and all religions are created by humans ...

I agree! Now, with this obvious piece of truth out of the way, may I ask atheists and agnostics the following—and I do not intend to ask snide, loaded, the gotcha-kind, or rhetorical—questions: If no god created and brought us to this point, what did? Evolution? If so, where can we hope, or want, to evolve from here? Is it best practice to let evolution take it course? Or, now that it seems that we do have a level self-awareness, is it possible to exercise our WILLpower and, from here on, do a better job?

THE NEXT REFORMATION?—IT IS THE ONE NEEDED IN THE 21st CENTURY

I predict that this will require THE INTEGRATION OF THE SECULAR (body and mind)  AND THE SACRED (spirit) VALUES.

Greetings and salutations.  I just noticed this thread.

A little background.  I was sent to Catholic schools but I decided I was an agnostic as a result of overdosing on science fiction starting in 4th grade.  I suppose Catholicism never really attracted me it was just there.  But sci-fi introduced me to the concepts of atheism and agnosticism and science being FUN.  But sci-fi was also imagination expanding.  It keeps you from throwing out possibilities even as you admit that they are unlikely.  So science fiction is kind of anti-dogmatism of any kind.  At least good science fiction.  I certainly never heard about atheism from adults from any adults.  I stopped going to church after graduating from grade school.  I was surprised that my mother didn’t seem to mind.  So basically I ignored religion for a decade.

I did a search of this thread and found no mention of reincarnation.  That does seem to be a characteristic of Western thinking on the subject.  There are conformists to Western thought on religion, which is pretty much means some version of Christianity, and there are reactionaries against conventional Western thought on the subject.  Now on the reincarnation business I ran across this book in my twenties called The Ultimate Frontier.  It is definitely one weird book.

The trouble with having a hypothesis about God leaves the question of how does this God run the universe.  I thought the Heaven and Hell concept was really dumb when I was in grade school but that is about the only paradigm that Western Christianity peddles.  But there are Jews who believe in reincarnation.  And Muslims who do also called the Druze.  So the God hypothesis has more than just the usual Western options.

But then things take a left turn with this:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

But, back to The Ultimate Frontier.  It “claims” the system runs on reincarnation and we are all supposed to be striving to perfect ourselves.  Heard that before but they get very complicated about it saying there is some kind of spiritual war going on and a divine conspiracy.  Apparently JC is involved and he is associated with this Melchizedek character.  Melchizedek turns up in the Epistle to the Hebrews.  European Christianity mostly does not know what to make of him.  Frankly I suggest anyone read The Ultimate Frontier because even if it is complete nonsense the story is a hoot.  Right up there with The Matrix for interesting convolutions.

That is why I am a Born Again Heisenberg Heretic.  The Heisenberg is about uncertainty since I still admit I don’t know but I do admit to “liking” the idea of reincarnation.  The trouble with atheism is that it is just really boring. 

How can you make an interesting conversation out of, “There is no God, shut up stupid!”?  LOL

And then of course there is the Age of Aquarius around the time JC is due back according to the Christians.  The Rapture is due any week now.

Oh, did I mention the Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ?

http://reluctant-messenger.com/aquarian_gospel.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_zAUrOq-Dc

psik

 Signature 

Fiziks is Fundamental

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 May 2012 06:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 131 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  11
Joined  2012-04-26
RevLGKing - 05 May 2012 09:48 PM

Let us have a dialogue about how we feel about, and use, words, like, mind, human being, spirit, soul, conscious being, consciousness, conscience (from Latin with + know) and the like.

Before one can have a dialogue about how they feel about such words, one needs to establish a common understanding of them. Perhaps you’d like to start the ball rolling by indicating exactly how you could use such words in a manner you think your potential interlocutors would accept. Many conversations founder due to the lack of common understanding of the terms. See the following comment to understand the issue.

Interesting. I wonder why! The last time I checked, spirit and soul are in the dictionary. Also, I have no problem connecting with them, and them with, mind.

Dictionaries are inherently conservative documents. You need to work with your interlocutors, not with dictionaries. Some people require grounding in an epistemologically sound ontology in order to find sense in notions, ie those notions that have no epistemology behind them can be seen as lacking significance, as in the example of pink elephants.

[ Edited: 06 May 2012 06:16 PM by spin ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 May 2012 09:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 132 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30
psikeyhackr - 06 May 2012 05:45 PM

... That is why I am a Born Again Heisenberg Heretic. The Heisenberg is about uncertainty since I still admit I don’t know but I do admit to “liking” the idea of reincarnation. The trouble with atheism is that it is just really boring. 

How can you make an interesting conversation out of, “There is no God, shut up stupid!”?  LOL

Thanks for your interesting comments, PSI, inviting me to “open up”, not “shut up” smile . Without being dogmatic about it, I too find reincarnation very interesting.

I first heard of the work of Dr. Ian Stevenson in the early 1960’s. I also read the interesting essay, THE CASE FOR REINCARNATION, by the minister, psychologist, the Rev. Dr. Leslie D. Weatherhead—City Temple, London, England: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Weatherhead  Weatherhead also used hypnotherapy. He was quite an innovator. Inspired by his work, and the fact that I have a background in psychology, I used what I now call pneumatherapy to help my daughter, Catherine, then a seven and one-half old (now a healthy 56 year old), overcome a life-threatening lung disease, which started when she was two.

Having had five bouts of pneumonia in the winter of 1963-1964, specialists at The Hospital For Children, Toronto, told my wife and I that there was little they could do: “Her lungs are so scarred that one more bout of pneumonia could take her life.”

This motivated me to put my recently-learned skill to work on the problem. After one thirty-minute session of hypnosis-like pneumatherapy—followed by the first full-night and deep sleep she had had in weeks—she completely overcame her problem in a very short time. Went back to school; accelerated a grade and was never bed-ridden again. At university she took the physically-demanding arts and ballet program. Married to an artist-carver, Wayne Adams, she is also a professional artist-carver. Also, she is skilled in pneumatherapy, massage-therapy, and other healing arts. Here is an example of their living and growing work of art—now quite famous. Visitors welcome!

http://browningpass.com/freedom-cove-february-2012/

BTW, Exploring her reincarnation experiences was an important factor in the getting rid of Catherine’s deeply-rooted lung problem.

Interestingly, though I told the specialist doctors, and our family doctor, what I planned to do, and did, not one expressed any kind of curiosity or asked me to describe the details of what I did and if it could possible be used to help other such stubborn cases—of which I feel there were any number. HMMMMM!

[ Edited: 06 May 2012 10:43 PM by RevLGKing ]
Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2012 06:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 133 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2279
Joined  2007-07-05

Born Again Heisenberg Heretic == B.A.A.H.

B.A.A.H. cannot be sheep. LOL

I suppose there is also the possibility that there is reincarnation and no God.  So atheism could be true but things still more weird than most atheists think.

psik

[ Edited: 07 May 2012 08:13 AM by psikeyhackr ]
 Signature 

Fiziks is Fundamental

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2012 08:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 134 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2768
Joined  2011-11-04
RevLGKing - 05 May 2012 09:48 PM
TimB - 02 May 2012 02:37 PM

When you say “the spiritual use of hypnotic technique”, I have an idea of what you mean by hypnotic technique, but can you state in behavioral terms, what you mean by “spiritual use of”?

What is a “behavioral term”?

Let us have a dialogue about how we feel about, and use, words, like, mind, human being, spirit, soul, conscious being, consciousness, conscience (from Latin with + know) and the like.

BTW, I have never accepted the master-subject approach of the early advocates for hypnotism. Braid, who first concocted the word,  later expressed his misgiving about the use of the word, hypnosis (from Greek for sleep). He tried to replace it with ‘mono-ideism’

A behavioral term, refers to actions of an organism or factors that effect the occurrence of such actions that are (at least potentially), measurable/observable.

A dialogue about how we “feel” about certain terms, seems particularly impractical to me, in terms of understanding. (e.g., I might feel comforted by the thought that I have an “eternal soul”, but the feeling does not, in any way, provide objective evidence that I do.  In fact, the opposite is the case.  That feeling would support a belief in an objectively unfounded abstract concept.)

A dialogue about the use of the terms you mentioned, might be helpful, but each of the terms you mentioned could involve an extended dialogue.  (There are already threads in this forum that have touched on consciousness.  You could do an in-forum search on the term and probably turn up some interesting thoughts.) 

The term “mind”, though ubiquitous in our language, I think, is a misleading abstraction, in that it leads to the dualistic inference that something we refer to as “mind” exists independent of our physiological selves and our correlated behavioral patterns and repertoire. The same can be said of the terms “spirit” and “soul”.

 Signature 

“Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb… We are bound to others, past and present… And by each crime and every kindness… We birth our future.”  Sonmi, 2144.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 May 2012 11:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 135 ]
Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  193
Joined  2011-12-30
TimB - 07 May 2012 08:53 AM

... The term “mind”, though ubiquitous in our language, I think, is a misleading abstraction, in that it leads to the dualistic inference that something we refer to as “mind” exists independent of our physiological selves and our correlated behavioral patterns and repertoire. The same can be said of the terms “spirit” and “soul”.

Is it true what I once heard a teacher say: ” A behaviourist is one who has made up his voice-box that he has no mind.” ?  smile  Me? As a unitheist-panentheist I prefer to think in terms of the holistic integration of soma, psyche and pneuma. For me, they are not independent objects.

Profile
 
 
   
9 of 22
9