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Let’s Have a Dialog—ie., a Conversation, not a debate—About the god-hypothesis
Posted: 09 May 2012 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 151 ]
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RevLGKing - 08 May 2012 03:22 PM
psikeyhackr - 08 May 2012 07:07 AM

Exactly, so using ideas and semantics from pre-scientific culture is not theology. It is religious anthropology.

If you want to say more about this, I am all ears. Then I will better understand the point of your comment.

As you say, centuries ago people did not know what air was.  They did not know what different parts of the body did.  And yet all over the world various cultures had numerous ideas about the origin of the world or what caused things to happen in the world.  So they came up with words and definitions to describe these ideas.

BUT THEY HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW REALITY REALLY WORKED.

So it is mostly semantic drivel.  Words for concepts which do not correspond to reality.  So science makes new words and concepts necessary and the often will not match ancient paradigms.

But many people took these things very seriously.  So regardless of whether or not there is a God it is nearly only historically and anthropologically interesting.

BUT, if there is a God responsible for the existence of the universe then that God has to know what we now call SCIENCE.  Science is about figuring out what we don’t know.  That is one of the curious things about Ian Stevenson.  If there is a God we have to track His ass down.

Of course I presume that if there is a God He has a sense of humor.  LOL

So God would have to know about relativity:

http://www.quantumcritics.com/20080302438/miscellaneous/general/star-trek-meets-the-bible.html

psik

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Posted: 09 May 2012 06:24 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 152 ]
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psikeyhackr - 09 May 2012 03:25 PM

... BUT, if there is a God responsible for the existence of the universe then that God has to know what we now call SCIENCE.  Science is about figuring out what we don’t know.  That is one of the curious things about Ian Stevenson.  If there is a God we have to track His ass down.

Of course I presume that if there is a God, He has a sense of humor.  LOL

So God would have to know about relativity:  http://www.quantumcritics.com/20080302438/miscellaneous/general/star-trek-meets-the-bible.html psik

If there is a God we have to track His ass down. LOL

PSIK: How good are you at tracking? And what kind of ‘god’ do you have in mind? One with gender and dimensions, etc.?

[ Edited: 22 June 2012 12:32 PM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 10 May 2012 10:34 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 153 ]
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RevLGKing - 09 May 2012 06:24 PM

PSIK: How good are you at tracking? And what kind of ‘god’ do you have in mind? One with gender and dimensions, etc.?

Due to the fact that we have no sensor data the “tracking” is somewhat of a figure of speech.

But since this God supposedly does not have a body then the gender issue is barely relevant.  I just go with my ineffective Catholic indoctrination but a female God hypothesis which can’t be detected is no different from a male God hypothesis which can’t be detected.

But this all knowing, all intelligent, all powerful business presents an issue.  Knowing everything means noting left to learn.  And being all intelligent would mean knowing the exactly the right thing to do in all circumstances.  So God would be more like a Law of Physics than what we normally regard as a person.

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Posted: 11 May 2012 09:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 154 ]
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psikeyhackr - 10 May 2012 10:34 AM

... But this all knowing, all intelligent, all powerful business presents an issue.  Knowing everything means noting left to learn.  And being all intelligent would mean knowing the exactly the right thing to do in all circumstances.  So God would be more like a Law of Physics than what we normally regard as a person. psik

Psik, IMO, and without being dogmatic G~0~D for me is not A being; but is BEING, which operates as that which is Good, Opportune & Desirable in and through us as persons—and only if we willingly (lovingly) chose that it be so.

I like to think of G~0~D as like LIGHT. Have you heard about the following:

http://odewire.com/105378/standing-in-the-light.html

How Johan Boswinkel is using biophotons, the faint light waves emitted by cells, to help the body heal.

Jurriaan Kamp | July/August 2011 issue

Warning: this story is about a man who has developed a groundbreaking new therapy: healing with light. The man is not a doctor. Nor is he an accredited scientist. His proof is rather anecdotal, and, yes, there are countless skeptics eagerly lining up to attack his results and conclusions. Yet Johan Boswinkel might just hold a key to the medicine of the future in his hands.

Why should you read on, after a warning like that? Because modern medicine, despite all its progress, often remains powerless against the many chronic illnesses spawned by our modern lifestyle. Albert Einstein said it well: You can never solve a problem on the same level of thinking on which it was created. My son’s T-shirt puts it more baldly: “It’s usually the oddballs who change the world.”...

_________________________
http://www.flfcanada.com  http://www.unitheist.org  Twitter? I am @Revlgkin
=================
SCIENCEAGOGO.COM is a very interesting ALL-science forum with a section for NOT-QUITE-SCIENCE, yet. This means it welcomes all interested in science, including philosophers and theologians. The moderators, who are doing a very good job, make it clear to all us posters: Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away. This includes postings filled with little positive content and of no educational value.  Postings filled with ridicule, vitriol, flames and the like, also, “will be moved to a galaxy far, far away”.
——————————————————————————-
For more on this, check out:  http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=43571#Post43571

[quote=Mike Kremer][quote=Ellis]Once again ‘the placebo effect’?

GOOD INFORMATION ABOUT PLACEBOS FOLLOWS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo#History
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_in_history Mike, you say[Quote=Mike Kremer] Quite an interesting article regarding Johan Boswinkel’s work…. The colour of ones clothes, or the walls of the rooms where you live, does have an effect on most peoples attitude and well-being.

Quite true, Mike! This why, at least once a day, I do the following yogic exercise, which is called: [size:14pt]
The Five Tibetan Rites: Exercises for Healing, Rejuvenation, and Longevity
[/size] http://www.mkprojects.com/pf_TibetanRites.htm  While doing this, I focus on a piece of art, using bright colours, that I have put together. It is 24 X 36 inches and is made up of the primary colours—Blue, Yellow and Red, plus chromium green—blue, yellow and white combined.

The arrangement is around a triangle (soma, psyche and pneuma—body (RED—energy), mind (YELLOW—knowledge) and spirit (BLUE—willpower).

Mike, you mention how colours affect our attitude and sense of well being. Right on!

MOVES, PLUS COLOURS, PLUS MUSIC
For me, doing this kind of exercise has: what I have come to think of as a self-induced placebo effect.

No matter what kind of dark funk I happen to be in when I first wake up, within a few minutes of doing even the first two, or three, of the five moves—including focusing on the colours, while listening to the kind of music I enjoy—I begin to feel improvement in my mood.

Though my taste for music is quite broad, I particularly enjoy Mozart, Bach, Handel, Beethoven, Vivaldi, the waltz king, Johann Strauss, and the like.

WHEN I WAKE IN THE MORNING,
THE FIRST THING I DO:
I LOOK FOR THE COLOURS
RED, YELLOW AND BLUE.
THEN I SAY TO MYSELF:
WHAT A COLOURFUL WORLD! 

The link above mentions five yogic moves. But, if you wish, feel free to add others you enjoy.

I frequently do some of the moves while having a B.A.T.H. While doing so, I say to myself: I will and choose to Be Aware & Think Health. No doubt, pious people would feel comfortable saying: I choose to be Born Again & Think Holiness smile

[ Edited: 12 May 2012 10:00 AM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 12 May 2012 06:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 155 ]
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I like to think of G~0~D as like LIGHT. Have you heard about the following:

Light is a phenomenon of physics, but no I never heard of him.

psik

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Posted: 12 May 2012 10:05 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 156 ]
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psikeyhackr - 12 May 2012 06:47 AM

I like to think of G~0~D as like LIGHT. Have you heard about the following:

Light is a phenomenon of physics, but no I never heard of him. psik

Is physics one of your skills?

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Posted: 12 May 2012 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 157 ]
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RevLGKing - 12 May 2012 10:05 AM
psikeyhackr - 12 May 2012 06:47 AM

I like to think of G~0~D as like LIGHT. Have you heard about the following:

Light is a phenomenon of physics, but no I never heard of him. psik

Is physics one of your skills?

Electrical engineering involves a bit of physics.  I thought lasers were so cool in high school.  I never thought they would be used to play music off CDs.  LOL

That is one thing that amazes me about this society.  Selecting science fiction books with GOOD science for grade school kids to read seems such an obvious thing to do and yet our so called educators don’t even seem to even be interested in the concept.  They have these new guidelines that are supposed to get approved by June.  I searched them for “Newton”.  They mention Newton’s 3rd Law but the 1st and 2nd seem to have disappeared.

http://www.nextgenscience.org/

I must have fallen through a hole into a parallel universe.  Reality has gotten really strange since the 60s.

psik

[ Edited: 12 May 2012 12:52 PM by psikeyhackr ]
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Posted: 22 June 2012 10:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 158 ]
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[quote author=“RevLGKing” date, today] Post revised, I hope.

[ Edited: 23 June 2012 12:14 PM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 23 June 2012 10:16 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 159 ]
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As it stands your post makes no sense.  Please figure out how to indicate quotations correctly and go go back and add the proper symbols at the appropriate places so we can tell who is writing what.  At present it appears that you didn’t add any comments, just copied prior posts (all in gray).

Occam

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Posted: 23 June 2012 11:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 160 ]
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psikeyhackr - 12 May 2012 10:37 AM
RevLGKing - 12 May 2012 10:05 AM
psikeyhackr - 12 May 2012 06:47 AM

I (LGK) like to think of G~0~D as like LIGHT. Have you heard about ...:

Light is a phenomenon of physics, but no I never heard of him, psik

Is physics one of your skills?

Electrical engineering involves a bit of physics.  I thought lasers were so cool in high school.  I never thought they would be used to play music off CDs.  LOL

That is one thing that amazes me about this society.  Selecting science fiction books with GOOD science for grade school kids to read seems such an obvious thing to do and yet our so called educators don’t even seem to even be interested in the concept.  They have these new guidelines that are supposed to get approved by June.  I searched them for “Newton”.  They mention Newton’s 3rd Law but the 1st and 2nd seem to have disappeared.
http://www.nextgenscience.org/

I must have fallen through a hole into a parallel universe.  Reality has gotten really strange since the 60s.psik

psik, you say, “Reality has gotten really strange since the 60s.”

When you wrote this, psik, what did you have in mind? If you meant somatic (physical) reality, I certainly agree with you. However, because I feel reality is a very complex concept, let us have a dialogue about what I call the three-component hypothesis of reality. BTW, my best subjects in high school were maths, physics and chemistry. My interest in the arts came later, at university.

THREE-COMPONENT HYPOTHESIS OF REALITY
In my opinion, without being doctrinaire about it, the three components, which I feel make up who I am as an integrated person, are: PHYSICALITY, MENTALITY & SPIRITUALITY—body, mind and spirit. Some writers prefer to talk about biology, psychology and sociology. So be it! Regardless of your theory of personality, comments and questions are welcome.

BUT IS PHYSICAL REALITY THE ONLY REALITY?
Is reality nothing more than just a physical thing? Is there not such a thing as a psychological, or mental, reality?
Do not most, if not all, medical scientists now agree that that psychosomatic diseases and pains are for real? Is it not true that poisonous thoughts inflicted on others by us can be as deadly as darts? We accept that we can, for sure, break the bones of others with our fists, sticks and stones, agreed? But can we not also break the hearts, the lives and even the health of others by throwing stress-inflicting dart-like insults at them?

IS THAT THE END OF THE STORY?
No, for me it isn’t. Let us pause for a moment and think about what I like to call the pneumatological, religious or spiritual component of reality. Keep in mind that there are thousands of religions out there. And quite a few of them, like Buddhism, are non-theistic. They think of reality as they experience it as being sacred, eternal and infinite.

With or without the gods, or a god, how do we account for the diseases and pains—addictions and the like—that, for no obvious reason often come our way—the kind, such as addictions, which we often inflict on ourselves? And what of the kind caused by stressful circumstances, or by toxic people? It is a complex matter that must be explored.

As a child of the Great Depression (I was born in 1930), I witnessed the death of both my parents, my two older and married siblings, two of their young children and other family members—between 1932 and 1944. I still feel bothered when I think about this time of great poverty and disease, especially TB.

However, at that time, the church, the minister, the adult church members and the teachers of the church-operated school were all very helpful, despite their own modest resources. Had the religion in which I was at the time taught me, and my younger sister, that our suffering and pain came as the result of god’s anger because of our sins, such a bad religion—which it was NOT—could have done us a lot of harm. I am still thankful, it did us a lot of good. The point is that, like all things we humans create, religion and spirituality can be instruments for evil or for good. Constructive criticism of hypocrisy—a frequent target of Jesus’ teachings—is, of course, welcomed; but I find it less stressful to avoid being negatively critical and vapidly judgemental. Such posturing does no good for anyone and is of no real help to the public good.

I APPRECIATE THE SINCERE AND CHALLENGING KIND OF ATHEISM
I am thankful for the challenge of sincere and honest atheism. When I talk about the god-hypothesis—the subject of this topic and dialogue—while I am not an atheist, I do not have now—nor have I ever had—the need to believe in a god who is a supernatural being with dimensions, one who lives separate and apart from us and our experiences. To my mind, such a god-concept is simply a super idol created in the mind. The opportunity to find that which is Good, Opportune and Desirable in Reality—including people, community and things—is all the reality that I need. Because of my personal experience, I sincerely respect all people, including atheists/agnostics, whose day by day living, based on the agape-love-based Golden Rule, says it all.

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Posted: 23 June 2012 01:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 161 ]
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Meaningless drivel as always.

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Posted: 23 June 2012 02:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 162 ]
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Yeah, but now you can be sure of who generated it, George.  LOL

Occam

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Posted: 23 June 2012 04:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 163 ]
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Occam. - 23 June 2012 02:41 PM

Yeah, but now you can be sure of who generated it, George.  LOL

Occam

Occam, I find the comment from George—an atheist, I suppose?—in response to the dialogue I am having with psik—very revealing, but nothing more.
I am not sure what to think of your comment. Regardless, I am pleased. Meanwhile, I offer thanks to one and all. Also, I give agape to all who take the trouble to read what I write smile

[ Edited: 23 June 2012 07:58 PM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 24 June 2012 08:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 164 ]
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You’re welcome, Reverend.

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Posted: 24 June 2012 03:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 165 ]
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George - 24 June 2012 08:38 AM

You’re welcome, Reverend.

You mean you really enjoy reading the “drivel” of an octogenarian? If so, very gracious of you. Or, are you just humouring me? If it is not too much trouble, maybe you can help me improve on how I communicate with psik, eh?

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