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Let’s Have a Dialog—ie., a Conversation, not a debate—About the god-hypothesis
Posted: 10 July 2012 03:32 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 286 ]
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Write4U - 09 July 2012 02:45 PM

RevLGKing,

Encouraging words indeed.

I perused the link and was pleasantly surprised by the liberal and progressive topics and responses. It gives me hope that eventual reconcilliation of science and religion is possible and the two can live peacefully side by side in pursuit of finding answers to the real problems that face the earth and mankind in the near future.

W4U, your encouraging response prompts me to ask: How can WE build on this, for the good of humanity?

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Posted: 10 July 2012 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 287 ]
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IMO, this can be accompished by removing the distinction between the concepts of Natural and Supernatural and accept the law of Cause/Effect as a common, testable universal constant.
Why quibble about the physical or metaphysical properties? Let science try to figure it out and let the chips fall where they may about First Causality. After all is said and done, it won’t change anything in regard to Effect.

[ Edited: 10 July 2012 04:47 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 10 July 2012 08:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 288 ]
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Write4U - 10 July 2012 04:44 PM

IMO, this can be accompished by removing the distinction between the concepts of Natural and Supernatural and accept the law of Cause/Effect as a common, testable universal constant.
Why quibble about the physical or metaphysical properties? Let science try to figure it out and let the chips fall where they may about First Causality. After all is said and done, it won’t change anything in regard to Effect.

So let me put it this way: I have said it elsewhere and I will say it here: I choose to accept that the awesome nature of the nature is super enough for all me.

[ Edited: 10 July 2012 08:34 PM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 10 July 2012 09:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 289 ]
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RevLGKing - 10 July 2012 08:31 PM
Write4U - 10 July 2012 04:44 PM

IMO, this can be accompished by removing the distinction between the concepts of Natural and Supernatural and accept the law of Cause/Effect as a common, testable universal constant.
Why quibble about the physical or metaphysical properties? Let science try to figure it out and let the chips fall where they may about First Causality. After all is said and done, it won’t change anything in regard to Effect.

So let me put it this way: I have said it elsewhere and I will say it here: I choose to accept that the awesome nature of the nature is super enough for all me.

Oh, everytime I look up at the cosmos on a clear night in No Idaho. I am astounded and humbled by the sheer beauty of it all. The more I understand of simplicity and logic in the principles of mathematics which can be extended to infinite complexity. Fractals are a perfect example. A triangle with an “instruction” to duplicate itself, can result in similarly astoundingly beautiful forms, expressions and variety on any scale from the very fabric of space at the Planck scale, to broccolis to measuring irregular lines (coastlines) with incredible accuracy, or the formation and shapes of entire galaxies, creating the most extraordinary beautiful, albeit mindless, designs.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=fractals&FORM=MYMSNA&mkt=en-US&qs=n&sk;=&cp=1252&pi=7317&di=12500

Perhaps as another golden rule, “understand and respect the laws of nature and their functions”.

[ Edited: 10 July 2012 11:00 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 13 July 2012 10:13 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 290 ]
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Write4U - 10 July 2012 09:26 PM

... Perhaps as another golden rule, “understand and respect the laws of nature and their functions”.

I agree. So let me share with you a comment by Bill S, at scienceagogo.com, which, in a discussion we had about mathematics, time and space and the “God particle”, he said he thought was interesting. Here is the quote

“In mathematics, an uncountable set is an infinite set that contains too many elements to be countable.”

I responded

Of course, I agree it is! And it fits in well with the concept, mathematically speaking, that I have in mind when I think G~O~D/G~0~D. Note: I did not say of G~O~D/G~0~D—which is not a subject to be talked to, or about, or an object to be possessed. G~O~D/G~0~D someone with dimensions.

Now perhaps we need to move beyond talking about the “God Particle” and look at what Mark Lynas writes about in his recent book:
THE GOD SPECIES In his book, Britain’s Mark Lynas Riles His Green Movement Allies.

Activist Mark Lynas has alienated his green colleagues by renouncing long-held views and becoming an advocate for nuclear power and genetically modified crops. In an interview with Yale Environment 360, he explains why he rethought his positions and turned to technology for solutions.
by keith kloor

http://e360.yale.edu/feature/britains_mark_lynas_riles_his_green_movement_allies/2449/

Raising the question about our role in all this, I said to Bill

OK, let’s talk about what some are now calling a new ear—the ANTHROPOCENE era:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene

The idea has been made well-known by the work of the Nobel prize winner for chemistry, Paul Crutzen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Crutzen
who made us aware of the importance of the ozone layer.
================================
The recent period now ending is called the Holocene period. Its name comes from the Greek words holos, whole or entire, and kainos, new, meaning “entirely recent”.

IMO, unitheistic (or holotheistic) thinking—that is, thinking of the cosmos as a holos—an entirety, will help us all be intelligent enough to get out of the mess we have been dumb enough to get into.

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Posted: 15 July 2012 07:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 291 ]
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As I said above

RevLGKing - 13 July 2012 10:13 AM

================================
The recent period now ending is called the Holocene period. Its name comes from the Greek words holos, whole or entire, and kainos, new, meaning “entirely recent”.

IMO, unitheistic (or holotheistic) thinking—that is, thinking of the cosmos as a holos—an entirety, will help us all be intelligent enough to get out of the mess we have been dumb enough to get into.

Apropos my comment above about holism, take note of this item from The Toronto Star, which was sent to me by a friend who was a member of, and the gifted music director of, Willowdale United Church, which I served (1966-1994) at Toronto, ON. There, in cooperation with experts in the healing arts, including medical doctors, I introduced and practised a program which I called PNEUMATOLOGY (including information about soma and psyche). It is about holistic medicine.

With a background in psychology, I used what I called pneumatherapy—hypnosis without the hocus pocus. Consistently, results like those mentioned in the Star article were achieved.

http://www.thestar.com/living/article/1225665—lindsay-wagner-famous-for-portraying-the-bionic-woman-is-in-town-for-healing-workshop-presented-to-people-living-with-hiv-aids

FROM THE TORONTO STAR

Growing up in a home plagued by domestic violence, Lindsay Wagner internalized her pain and didn’t speak about the abuse. She rarely cried. And there was much to cry about.

By age 19, the budding actress was suffering from a severe case of ulcers. The pain, she says, was “eating its way out of my stomach.”

Slated to undergo surgery, Wagner had the great fortune, and “blessing,” of being introduced to a doctor and minister who approached her care in a holistic manner. After six weeks of fasting, visualization and meditation, combined with prayer, the ulcers had disappeared.

“It was just such a profound experience for me that I wanted to learn more and it began a life of study for me,” recalls the 63-year-old actress in a recent telephone interview. “My whole life I’ve been studying this. It’s been my real passion.”.....

[ Edited: 15 July 2012 07:04 AM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 15 July 2012 10:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 292 ]
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Is this just New Age techno-weirdness?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpVEH-Bpdes

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Posted: 16 July 2012 02:46 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 293 ]
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psikeyhackr - 15 July 2012 10:42 PM

Is this just New Age techno-weirdness?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpVEH-Bpdes

psik

ty psikeyhackr, for that link.

Excellent documentary.
When I thought on it , it occurred to me that the entire debate between theology and science is a matter of semantics, which in the end come down to the question if this wholeness (connectedness) stems from supernatural origins or that the wholeness (connectedness) is a dynamic natural essence (potential) of this universe and all that it contains.
We don’t just yet quite understand how it functions, but we are getting close. This is along the lines of Bohm’s Implicate, IMO

[ Edited: 16 July 2012 02:50 AM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 16 July 2012 03:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 294 ]
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Write4U - 16 July 2012 02:46 AM
psikeyhackr - 15 July 2012 10:42 PM

Is this just New Age techno-weirdness?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpVEH-Bpdes

psik

ty psikeyhackr, for that link.

Excellent documentary.
When I thought on it , it occurred to me that the entire debate between theology and science is a matter of semantics, which in the end come down to the question if this wholeness (connectedness) stems from supernatural origins or that the wholeness (connectedness) is a dynamic natural essence (potential) of this universe and all that it contains.
We don’t just yet quite understand how it functions, but we are getting close. This is along the lines of Bohm’s Implicate, IMO

I agree! Make note of this: In 1965, here in Toronto (Where I heard Bohm deliver a lecture at the University of Toronto), I—with a background in philosophy, psychology and theology—concocted the word ‘PNEUMATOLOGY’—study of the spirit, or the human ability to say, “I am”.

For details, check out http://www.lindsayking.ca Interestingly, later I found out that the word was already in major dictionaries. Perhaps, without being aware of what had actually happened, I had simply tuned in to the entanglement of ideas, eh? grin

[ Edited: 16 July 2012 03:12 PM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 16 July 2012 03:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 295 ]
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That or your idea wasn’t original.

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Posted: 16 July 2012 04:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 296 ]
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DarronS - 16 July 2012 03:12 PM

That or your idea wasn’t original.

Darron, I have no idea to whom you are addressing your comment. Therefore, I have no idea what you mean. Please clarify, OK?  grin

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Posted: 16 July 2012 04:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 297 ]
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I’m talking about you making up a word then finding out it already existed. When I was in junior high school some friends formed a band and needed a name. After thinking about it I decided “Purple Haze” sounded pretty good. I was very disappointed when they informed me that was the title of a Jimi Hendrix song.

There’s nothing cosmic about your incident or mine. Someone beat us to it, that’s all.

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Posted: 16 July 2012 06:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 298 ]
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DarronS - 16 July 2012 04:11 PM

I’m talking about you making up a word then finding out it already existed. When I was in junior high school some friends formed a band and needed a name. After thinking about it I decided “Purple Haze” sounded pretty good. I was very disappointed when they informed me that was the title of a Jimi Hendrix song.

There’s nothing cosmic about your incident or mine. Someone beat us to it, that’s all.

Darron, thanks for the clarification. But keep in mind: I don’t think that I made any personal claim that my thought is cosmically significant. However, in my research I did discover the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatology  This article mention the work of Philipp Melanchton.

Philipp Melanchthon (February 16, 1497 – April 19, 1560), born Philipp Schwartzerdt, was a German reformer, collaborator with Martin Luther, the first systematic theologian of the Protestant Reformation, intellectual leader of the Lutheran Reformation, and an influential designer of educational systems.

He stands next to Luther and Calvin as a reformer, theologian, and molder of Protestantism. As much as Luther, he is the primary founder of Lutheranism. The scholarly work of Professor Philipp Melanchthon of the University of Wittenberg played a crucial role in the Protestant Reformation. He was a theologian, a student of the classics, a German reformer and collaborator of Martin Luther. As an expert in Hebrew and Greek, he helped Luther translate the Bible into German. Based on theology, he laid the foundation of pneumatology—the mother of psychology.
===================
BTW, you seem to be a gregarious, kind and thoughtful kind of person—the kind with whom I feel that it would find it possible to have an interchange of important thoughts and ideas. May I ask—unless it is asking too much—what is it that prompts you to be part of this forum? What are your interests?

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Posted: 16 July 2012 07:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 299 ]
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RevLGKing - 16 July 2012 06:51 PM

BTW, you seem to be a gregarious, kind and thoughtful kind of person—the kind with whom I feel that it would find it possible to have an interchange of important thoughts and ideas. May I ask—unless it is asking too much—what is it that prompts you to be part of this forum? What are your interests?

I am on this forum because I enjoy exchanging ideas with people who are open to new information and practice critical thinking skills. The vast majority of people here fit that description, and exchanging ideas - even arguing - with these people has helped hone my thinking skills. I have little patience with people who obstinately repeat stuff they’ve been told to think or latch onto ideas that sound exciting then refuse to consider the drawbacks as well as the benefits.

My interests include photography, the environment, astronomy, physics, philosophy and good music. I would include mathematics if I had the chops to be good at math, but I hit a brick wall in trigonometry. I understand how trig and calculus work, but my brain refuses to retain the formulas to regurgitate on tests.

[ Edited: 16 July 2012 07:04 PM by DarronS ]
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Posted: 16 July 2012 07:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 300 ]
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Geez, I knew we were soulmates, Darron. LOL

but I hit a brick wall in trigonometry. I understand how trig and calculus work, but my brain refuses to retain the formulas to regurgitate on tests.

I loved math until stupid trig showed up.  A few of the concepts of calculus were nice, but eh.  After finishing the lower division requirements, my major had the upper division requirement of four math courses, expecting that advanced calculus and differential equations would be used to fulfill them.  I took two advanced algebra courses and two number theory courses instead. They were a lot of fun and I never regretted them.  Interestingly, not once in my entire work life did I ever need either trig or calculus. 

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