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Let’s Have a Dialog—ie., a Conversation, not a debate—About the god-hypothesis
Posted: 21 July 2012 10:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 316 ]
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When he first heard about this, Beethoven didn’t give a beat; Wagner didn’t give and wag and Damrosch…... ?  Well! Being pious, he just refused to care grin

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Posted: 21 July 2012 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 317 ]
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I’m sure your congregation enjoyed your wit.

I believe the term is “bazinga”.  (Ref: The Big Bang Theory”)

Occam

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Succinctness, clarity’s core.

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Posted: 22 July 2012 04:56 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 318 ]
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I’m sorry but I like Ride of the Valkyries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V92OBNsQgxU

Wait, I take that back. I’m not sorry.

psik

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Posted: 22 July 2012 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 319 ]
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[Except for the Norse religion. When I got married in a United Church in Mississauga, I wasn’t permitted to play Wagner.  /quote]


“Ride” is a favorite of mine too but I think George meant the “wedding March”, also a Wagner piece. Or I could be completely off base. Could be Tristam und Isolde!  grin

Cap’t Jack

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One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.

Thomas Paine

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Posted: 08 November 2012 07:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 320 ]
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About the quote from Thomas Paine. in your signature:

OK, let us assume that Thomas Paine had a point—all be it a very small one though. May I ask: What did he think of priests who WERE teachers—some damn good ones, eh?

Me? I am a retired minister. Much of my over-forty-year of ministry included teaching programs.  As a gift from my church, there was no salary involved.

For the record: Our son and daughter are teachers.

[ Edited: 08 November 2012 07:29 PM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 09 November 2012 06:24 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 321 ]
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About the quote from Thomas Paine. in your signature:

OK, let us assume that Thomas Paine had a point—all be it a very small one though. May I ask: What did he think of priests who WERE teachers—some damn good ones, eh?

Me? I am a retired minister. Much of my over-forty-year of ministry included teaching programs.  As a gift from my church, there was no salary involved.

For the record: Our son and daughter are teachers


I’m sure you’ve read his book “Age of reason”. If so, the quote is self explanatory. First of all, as to priests being teachers;it totally depends on what they teach, be it academic subjects or religious. Paine was aiming his quote at the latter. Yes, there were academicians who happened to be priests, even today. So his point was that emphasizing secular eduacation over religious is far more advantageous than merely religious jargon, or suppositions concerning the real World based on a particular religious philosophy. Also, I’ve had over 36 years in public and higher education and have taught courses that include religious history (mainly xtian) but there was a salary involved. I’m an atheist, not an active antitheist. I view religion as having a place in history and have no problem with anyone following their belief system as long as it doesn’t infringe my right not to be religious. I totally believe in students receiving a secular education with no religious control of the curriculum. If they want to learn about their faith, there are churches on every corner here that will oblige. Oh, and for the record, my daughter is a teacher and my son is finishing his ed. degree in science.

 

Cap’t Jack

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One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.

Thomas Paine

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Posted: 09 November 2012 03:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 322 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 09 November 2012 06:24 AM

... I’m sure you’ve read his book “Age of reason”. If so, the quote is self explanatory. First of all, as to priests being teachers; it totally depends on what they teach, be it academic subjects or religious. Paine was aiming his quote at the latter. ... If they (anyone) want to learn about their faith, there are churches on every corner here that will oblige. Oh, and for the record, my daughter is a teacher and my son is finishing his ed. degree in science.
Cap’t Jack

Good points, Cap’t J!

I forgot to mention that I was born on, and grew up on, an interesting island—Bell Island (1930-1947), Conception Bay, Newfoundland. It was then the largest iron-ore mining town in the British Empire. About 10,000 people lived there. From there, going s/e, it took three miles by ferry, and nine miles by road to get to down town St. John’s, the capital. For details about BI & the story of how enemy subs attacked it in WW 2, 1942. I still remember hearing the explosions. Check out—http://www.bellisland.net—During the battles, sixty-nine merchant seamen lost their lives when, when four iron-ore carriers were sunk.

Since the 16th Century, this first and oldest colony (1497) of England was valued for its cod fish, forests and minerals. Because of the depression, the local government went bankrupt and NL (Newfoundland-Labrador) once again became a totally dependent colony with a British governor. 

THE EDUCATION SYSTEM ORIGINATED WITH THE CHURCHES

When the first colonies became large enough, the clergy who accompanied the first settlers naturally set up a denominational system of education. Eventually, each denomination—Roman Catholics, Anglicans, United Church—Methodist, Presbyterian and Congregational roots—and others, with per-capita support from the governing body—had their own buildings and hired denominational teachers.

Interestingly, there was no compulsory public education at that time. With the help of older siblings, who had little formal education, I chose to attend school. Of my contemporaries, I was one of the few to graduate from the U.C. school with high enough marks to be eligible to go on to university. When, at 16 I let it be known that I planned to apply and get accepted at a university, I sought out the help of my minister who, I am happy to say, also became a mentor. He respected my sceptical questioning of the Bible and the teachings of the religions. In summary, here is what he advised: “Take a good basic B.A. around the subjects you find interesting. Even if you register as a theological student, this will give you all kinds of options and not lock you in to any career.”

I am still thankful that I accepted his advice. To get this kind of education, in 1947 I migrated to New Brunswick, Canada and attended a denominational university. However, it was open to all races and creeds, including Jews, etc., and secularists. This is what attracted me. MTA was not a seminary for clergy and teachers only.  http://www.mta.ca  was, and is also about the arts, especially the fine arts and music, and the sciences.

In 1949, NL, with the help NL students studying in Canada, became the tenth province of Canada. That year, I was a junior at Mount Allison university. There, also, I had the privilege of meeting our first prime minister, the Hon. Joseph R. Smallwood—his life was quite interesting—who, an avid federalist, served the province for the rest of his life. Currently by the way, the education system is a public one.

Also, BTW, I forgot to mention: Later, as a UC minister (ordained in1953) I taught a non-sectarian approach to religious studies in public schools in Canada, and as a teacher at teachers college in Toronto. Sceptics, like me, were welcome.

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Posted: 13 November 2012 10:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 323 ]
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RevLGKing - 08 November 2012 07:26 PM

About the quote from Thomas Paine. in your (Thevillageatheist) signature:

“One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests.”

OK, let us assume that Thomas Paine had a point—all be it a very small one though. May I ask: What did he think of priests who WERE teachers—some damn good ones, eh?

Me? I am a retired minister. Much of my over-forty-year of ministry included teaching programs.  As a gift from my church, there was no salary involved.

Excuse me for jumping in here. 
But the way I read that quote is that a teacher opens the world and gives students methods for learning about the grand existence around us.  Whereas a Priest is charged with regulating and confining one’s imagination to within one book and dogma.

RevLGKing - 08 November 2012 07:26 PM

For the record: Our son and daughter are teachers.

When I first read this, I laughed since I’ve come to respect the old adage that kids teach us more than we teach them. 
But on second reading guess you’re saying they are working teachers.  Congrats.  Sometime I like to think I should have been a teacher.

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Posted: 21 November 2012 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 324 ]
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citizenschallenge.pm - 13 November 2012 10:37 AM

... Excuse me for jumping in here. 
But the way I read that quote is that a teacher opens the world and gives students methods for learning about the grand existence around us.  Whereas a Priest is charged with regulating and confining one’s imagination to within one book and dogma.

Citizen, have you ever read anything about the Protestant (meaning ‘witness for’) Reformation?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation—still going on to this day, in most democratic churches. In the 16th. Century, many priests and their followers stopped being slaves to one institution, the church of Rome and its dogma.

No, they did not do a perfect job, but progressive leaders in Switzerland, England, Scotland, Scandinavia and other areas of Europe opened the doors and laid the foundation for the development of several constitutional monarchies like England and democracies, including the USA and Canada. Speaking of Canada, go to:

http://progressivechristianity.ca/prc/?page_id=117
I count myself a friend of Greta Vosper—one of the leaders of this movement in Canada, for which I first advocated in the 1960’s. Keep in mind, I was born in 1930. For more info go to   lindsayking.ca

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