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Let’s Have a Dialog—ie., a Conversation, not a debate—About the god-hypothesis
Posted: 25 February 2012 02:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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Right on, George.  You’ll notice that I haven’t been participating here*.  smile

*(except for a few W/A comments)

Occam

[ Edited: 25 February 2012 02:31 PM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 27 February 2012 09:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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PC, as I suggested in an earlier post, for some of us some of the time, life has been a time of pain, suffering and one crisis after another. But to be fair, it has also had its share of happiness and joy. In other words, we live in a world that is really a mixed-bag of danger and opportunity. Interestingly, the Chinese word for crisis is made up of two symbols: one means danger and the other means opportunity.

Crises come to all of us. Some days are just chock full of the opportune kind—goodness, beauty, happiness, joy and truth and good luck all round—while other crises are nothing but bad luck as our gladness turns into sadness. To which I assume you would still respond [quote author=“PLaClair” date=“1330033171”... it’s exactly what I would expect in a world governed by the blind forces of nature.

Then you add

So in the end I’m not sure how productive our dialogue might be – not that I’m dismissing it, I’m still trying to figure out what assumptions you’re bringing to the table: because no matter how open-minded we try to be, we all come to the table with a framework, which includes a set of assumptions. ...

The “assumptions” that I bring to the table? Based on how I genetically evolved, the physical, mental and spiritual environment in which I was raised, my education and my experiences (both ongoing processes), including a strong desire to continue the process we call living, I do not think of nature as just a set of blind forces.

I assume that the forces of nature—both the constructive and the apparently destructive ones—are subject to what we call the laws of nature. Assuming that I am a physical, mental and spiritual being within nature, I will to have a strong will and desire to, with the help of philosophy, the sciences and the arts, know and to do all I can to know more and more about the physical, mental and spiritual laws that that will strengthen wills and, therefore, enable us all to make for the kind of life which is crisis-free—“a thing of beauty that is a joy forever” (John Keats, poet)—not just for me, but for all of us. (May need a re-write. Any help will be appreciated.)  grin

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Posted: 27 February 2012 10:08 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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Linds,

Based on how I genetically evolved, the physical, mental and spiritual environment in which I was raised, my education and my experiences (both ongoing processes), including a strong desire to continue the process we call living, I do not think of nature as just a set of blind forces.

Except for (spiritual) that statement can be made for any living organism. Which would tend to confirm the “set of blind forces”.

and

“enable us all to make for the kind of life which is crisis-free—“a thing of beauty that is a joy forever”

Until an asteroid comes along and wipes us all out, as has happened in the past with the dinosaurs and most all other things of beauty of that time, which already had billions of years of evolution behind them.

Please do not misunderstand. I am not an anarchist. But I believe that the notion of a future world or universe of beauty and joy is highly speculative and without any evidence after 14 billion years.
I do agree that we must strive to reach for that goal, but not for some future result. IMO, in the striving we attain an appreciation of the beauty of the universe and the joy of knowing how fortunate we are to be human and not a simple amoeba. And it makes little difference how we achieve this enlightened state of awareness. Yours is as good as any, if it works for you.

[ Edited: 27 February 2012 10:36 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 16 April 2012 03:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 16 February 2012 08:10 AM

It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropomorphic concept which I cannot take seriously. ... ”

TVA, you have my complete agreement. Born in 1930, even as a child, I chose NOT to be anthropomorphic. In 1947, at 17, I went off to university http://www.mta.ca as a theological student and as a total sceptic.

I was happy to find that none my professors of philosophy, psychology, theology, Bible studies and the like, told us “what to think”. Their focus was on the whole process of thinking. The newly-appointed head of us 60 or so theological students put it this way: “Lady (there was one female member then) and gentlemen, please do not hang up your brains with your hat when you come into any of the classes in this department.”

Immediately, I felt at home. You say

My views are near to those of Spinoza: admiration for the beauty of and belief in the logical simplicity of the order and harmony which we can grasp humbly and only imperfectly.

Then you and I are at-one-ment, it seems. Cap’t Jack

I may set up a topic as follows: G~∅~D and/or God—there is a difference. You comments and questions will be welcomed.

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Posted: 16 April 2012 03:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
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My comment and question:  What the devil does “G~∅~D and/or God” mean?  Please elucidate in English rather than in pseudo-symbolic logic.

Occam

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Posted: 16 April 2012 03:57 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
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I’ll ask you questions about your G-0-D, Lynds, if you promise to ask me questions about my god, Guba Buba.  cheese

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Posted: 17 April 2012 09:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
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mid atlantic - 13 February 2012 07:19 PM

I can engage in a friendly dialog about God.

Thank you, Mid Atlantic, and for being willing to have a dialog with me. An interesting pen-name. I was born in the North Atlantic http://www.bellisland.net  Bell Island, Newfoundland (NL). Read the story about the iron-ore mining (1895-1966) there. During WW 2, enemy subs attacked us, twice—in 1942. I was 12. 69 merchant seamen lost their lives. Our house was close to the explosions.

My father and four much-older brothers were iron-ore miners, with little formal education. My younger sister and I—number 7 and 8, and the only two now living—were the ones fortunate enough to get an education. We have our older siblings (there were three daughters) to thank for helping us.

The first Europeans to try to colonize North America settled just west of BI, in 1610.    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuper’s_Cove,_Newfoundland_and_Labrador  The name is now Cupids. This was 10 years before colonists   settled in Jamestown, Virginia, USA, in 1620.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mageia:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=cupids+nl+map&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq;=&hnear=0x4b734c0e81818bad:0x759a62efbe9e0b08,Cupids,+NL&gl=ca&ei=4CqOT-GxMon10gG98N2gDw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQ8gEwAA
=================================
You indicate you live in Baltimore. Are you aware of how NL and Baltimore are connected ? Check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Calvert,_1st_Baron_Baltimore
In your bio you say: My first name is Mike, never had a strong belief in the supernatural. I’m a Blue collar slob basically, although I like to think of myself as more than a slob. I’m not well educated, but I like to read and learn things. I consider myself a materialist, I am convinced that personal intervening gods simply do not exist, and that magical thinking is wishful thinking.
============================
Let me assure you that I do not believe in a physical god anymore than I believe in a physical Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, or Bertrand Russell’s orbiting tea pot.

BTW, I started a thread at http://www.scienceagogo which now has over 3,900,000 hits
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=24961&page=92
There, in detail, I write about my philosophy, psychology and pneumatology of religion.
======================================


ABOUT THE NATURE OF FAITH
=========================
In Latin, there are two kinds of faith—fides & fiducia.

For example, when I say that I believe there is a bank and a church in the centre of town, this is fides. However, when I put my money in the bank, and when I attend and support the church, this is fiducia.

There are clergy who say: We have a fiduciary trust in science and strongly believe that, in service of the public good, it can have a real, positive and practical value. Therefore, we are scientists. For example,
http://www.ordainedscientists.org
http://www.ordainedscientists.org/history.html

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Posted: 17 April 2012 10:13 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
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Your post looks more like an advertisement than a dialog.. smile

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Posted: 18 April 2012 01:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
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RevLGKing - 17 April 2012 09:26 PM
mid atlantic - 13 February 2012 07:19 PM

I can engage in a friendly dialog about God.

Thank you, Mid Atlantic, and for being willing to have a dialog with me. An interesting pen-name. I was born in the North Atlantic http://www.bellisland.net  Bell Island, Newfoundland (NL). Read the story about the iron-ore mining (1895-1966) there. During WW 2, enemy subs attacked us, twice—in 1942. I was 12. 69 merchant seamen lost their lives. Our house was close to the explosions.

My father and four much-older brothers were iron-ore miners, with little formal education. My younger sister and I—number 7 and 8, and the only two now living—were the ones fortunate enough to get an education. We have our older siblings (there were three daughters) to thank for helping us.

The first Europeans to try to colonize North America settled just west of BI, in 1610.    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuper’s_Cove,_Newfoundland_and_Labrador  The name is now Cupids. This was 10 years before colonists   settled in Jamestown, Virginia, USA, in 1620.

http://maps.google.ca/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mageia:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=cupids+nl+map&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq;=&hnear=0x4b734c0e81818bad:0x759a62efbe9e0b08,Cupids,+NL&gl=ca&ei=4CqOT-GxMon10gG98N2gDw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCEQ8gEwAA
=================================
You indicate you live in Baltimore. Are you aware of how NL and Baltimore are connected ? Check out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Calvert,_1st_Baron_Baltimore
In your bio you say: My first name is Mike, never had a strong belief in the supernatural. I’m a Blue collar slob basically, although I like to think of myself as more than a slob. I’m not well educated, but I like to read and learn things. I consider myself a materialist, I am convinced that personal intervening gods simply do not exist, and that magical thinking is wishful thinking.
============================
Let me assure you that I do not believe in a physical god anymore than I believe in a physical Santa Claus, the tooth fairy, or Bertrand Russell’s orbiting tea pot.

BTW, I started a thread at http://www.scienceagogo which now has over 3,900,000 hits
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=24961&page=92
There, in detail, I write about my philosophy, psychology and pneumatology of religion.
======================================


ABOUT THE NATURE OF FAITH
=========================
In Latin, there are two kinds of faith—fides & fiducia.

For example, when I say that I believe there is a bank and a church in the centre of town, this is fides. However, when I put my money in the bank, and when I attend and support the church, this is fiducia.

There are clergy who say: We have a fiduciary trust in science and strongly believe that, in service of the public good, it can have a real, positive and practical value. Therefore, we are scientists. For example,
http://www.ordainedscientists.org
http://www.ordainedscientists.org/history.html

So you’re North Atlantic and I’m Mid; now , we just need somebody from Florida to be South Atlantic smile  It sounds like you’ve lived a hard early life and and come out the better for it; that’s very admirable.  I was not aware of that connection between Newfoundland and Baltimore, but it’s not surprising - those guys got around a lot.  Yes, I’m willing to talk about God.  I have a very strong disbelief in supernatural beings that are taking an interest in us, and our universe - there is simply no evidence what so ever for that.  I can slightly imagine a being that created our universe, kind of like an ultra powerful alien intellegence; but it is completley remote from us, and there would be no use in worshipping it if was real.  I think that the current science makes that seem VERY unlikely (but not utterly impossible.)

[ Edited: 18 April 2012 01:48 AM by mid atlantic ]
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Posted: 18 April 2012 08:41 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
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mid Atlantic - 18 April 2012 01:21 AM

... It sounds like you’ve lived a hard early life and and come out the better for it; that’s very admirable.

Other than the deaths of close relatives and friends, youth for me it was a great adventure. I was also fortunate in that I was surrounded by a good family and lots of good friends—Protestants, Catholics and Jews—there were four Jewish families on the Island. One of the sons was a room mate with me at http://www.mta.ca  Keep in mind that during my 17 years there, Bell Island had a population of over 10,000 people—not a typical, out of the way outport. The Capital, St. John’s—is only about 10 miles away. Then it was about 40,000. Now it is approaching 150,000.  It is the oldest incorporated city in North America. Once a have-not province, the development of the off-shore oil industry has made Newfoundland a prosperous Canadian province—no longer expecting handouts from Ottawa, on the border of Ontario and Quebec—the home of our Parliament and the federal government.

Why the apostrophe in the name of the city? you may ask.  The city was founded on St.John’s Day—that is, on John the Baptist Day, June 25. Today the city covers quite a large area beyond the old an famous harbour. Some of the people who live on Bell Island, now less than 3000, work there.  http://www.stjohns.ca/index.jsp
https://www.google.ca/search?q=St. John’s, NL&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mageia:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

I am glad to hear you say:

Yes, I’m willing to talk about God.  I have a very strong disbelief in supernatural beings that are taking an interest in us, and our universe - there is simply no evidence what so ever for that.

  I agree with you. This is the main reason why, when I write, I do not like using the noun ‘God’, or the pronoun ‘he’—to anthropomorphic for me. However, as long as strict religionists do not insist that they have the one and only TRUTH; that others are all wrong and deserved to be shunned or persecuted, I respect their right to have their own beliefs.

My younger sister is married to a good friend and a good open-minded Catholic, with whom I often have a healthy dialogue. My only son is married to a Muslim—a student of Sufism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism  They met at university.  http://www.yorku.ca/web/index.htm  A Persian from Tehran, she is a very fine and sophisticated lady—the mother of my three grandchildren. We always have good and valuable dialogues about philosophy and religion. No respecters of blind faith: Yes, we do talk about the dark side of religion as well as the good it does for society. You say

I can slightly imagine a being that created our universe, kind of like an ultra powerful alien intelligence; but it is completely remote from us, and there would be no use in worshipping it if was real.  I think that the current science makes that seem VERY unlikely (but not utterly impossible.)

Rather that being a being, G~0~D for me, is BEING—the totality of whatever being is and what it evolving into, and becoming. This is called process theology. Have you, or others, heard of it.? if so, let us know what you think of it.

G~0~D IS NOT A BEING, BUT BEING THAT OPERATES IN, THROUGH & AROUND THE WHOLE PROCESS WE CALL LIFE
One of the modern advocates of process philosophy and theology—god is evolving in. through and around life and the universe, the cosmos—was Alfred North Whitehead (1861-1947).  http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/whitehead/  He was the son of a traditional Anglican minister, with whom he had many a heated conversation. Whitehead was also a great mathematician and cooperated with the atheist Bertrand Russell, also a philosopher and mathematician. Together, they wrote Principles of Mathematics.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/process-theism/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_theology

[ Edited: 18 April 2012 08:58 PM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 19 April 2012 03:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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RevLGKing - 18 April 2012 08:41 PM
mid Atlantic - 18 April 2012 01:21 AM

... It sounds like you’ve lived a hard early life and and come out the better for it; that’s very admirable.

Other than the deaths of close relatives and friends, youth for me it was a great adventure. I was also fortunate in that I was surrounded by a good family and lots of good friends—Protestants, Catholics and Jews—there were four Jewish families on the Island. One of the sons was a room mate with me at http://www.mta.ca  Keep in mind that during my 17 years there, Bell Island had a population of over 10,000 people—not a typical, out of the way outport. The Capital, St. John’s—is only about 10 miles away. Then it was about 40,000. Now it is approaching 150,000.  It is the oldest incorporated city in North America. Once a have-not province, the development of the off-shore oil industry has made Newfoundland a prosperous Canadian province—no longer expecting handouts from Ottawa, on the border of Ontario and Quebec—the home of our Parliament and the federal government.

Why the apostrophe in the name of the city? you may ask.  The city was founded on St.John’s Day—that is, on John the Baptist Day, June 25. Today the city covers quite a large area beyond the old an famous harbour. Some of the people who live on Bell Island, now less than 3000, work there.  http://www.stjohns.ca/index.jsp
https://www.google.ca/search?q=St. John’s, NL&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mageia:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&source=hp&channel=np

I am glad to hear you say:

Yes, I’m willing to talk about God.  I have a very strong disbelief in supernatural beings that are taking an interest in us, and our universe - there is simply no evidence what so ever for that.

  I agree with you. This is the main reason why, when I write, I do not like using the noun ‘God’, or the pronoun ‘he’—to anthropomorphic for me. However, as long as strict religionists do not insist that they have the one and only TRUTH; that others are all wrong and deserved to be shunned or persecuted, I respect their right to have their own beliefs.

My younger sister is married to a good friend and a good open-minded Catholic, with whom I often have a healthy dialogue. My only son is married to a Muslim—a student of Sufism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism  They met at university.  http://www.yorku.ca/web/index.htm  A Persian from Tehran, she is a very fine and sophisticated lady—the mother of my three grandchildren. We always have good and valuable dialogues about philosophy and religion. No respecters of blind faith: Yes, we do talk about the dark side of religion as well as the good it does for society. You say

I can slightly imagine a being that created our universe, kind of like an ultra powerful alien intelligence; but it is completely remote from us, and there would be no use in worshipping it if was real.  I think that the current science makes that seem VERY unlikely (but not utterly impossible.)

Rather that being a being, G~0~D for me, is BEING—the totality of whatever being is and what it evolving into, and becoming. This is called process theology. Have you, or others, heard of it.? if so, let us know what you think of it.

G~0~D IS NOT A BEING, BUT BEING THAT OPERATES IN, THROUGH & AROUND THE WHOLE PROCESS WE CALL LIFE
One of the modern advocates of process philosophy and theology—god is evolving in. through and around life and the universe, the cosmos—was Alfred North Whitehead (1861-1947).  http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/whitehead/  He was the son of a traditional Anglican minister, with whom he had many a heated conversation. Whitehead was also a great mathematician and cooperated with the atheist Bertrand Russell, also a philosopher and mathematician. Together, they wrote Principles of Mathematics.
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/process-theism/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_theology

Process theology seems to me, vaguely like “believing in the belief” in some higher power.  Is your concept of G~O~D basically a philosophical concept akin to a sort of life force, or power of information?  To be more clear, a belief that everything that happens and that is, is the definition of G~O~D?

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Posted: 19 April 2012 09:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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mid atlantic - 19 April 2012 03:20 AM

Process theology seems to me, vaguely like “believing in the belief” in some higher power. Is your concept of G~O~D basically a philosophical concept akin to a sort of life force, or power of information?  To be more clear, a belief that everything that happens and that is, is the definition of G~O~D?

MA: Thanks! Your comment and questions, neither loaded nor rhetorical, are of the kind that promotes having a healthy dialogue and win/win kind of games. Very helpful. 

ABOUT PROCESS THEOLOGY & PANENTHEISM—what, to avoid confusion with pantheism, I CALL UNITHEISM
The German philosopher Karl Christian Friedrich Krause (1781–1832) seeking to reconcile monotheism and pantheism, coined the term panentheism (“all in God”) in 1828. This conception of God influenced New England transcendentalists such as Ralph Waldo Emerson.

The term was popularized by the Rev. Charles Hartshorne in his development of process theology and has also been adopted by proponents of various New Thought beliefs. The formalization of this term in the West in the 18th century was of course not new; philosophical treatises had been written on it in the context of Hinduism for millennia.

Other philosophers, who embraced panentheism, have included Thomas Hill Green (1839-1882), James Ward (1843-1925), Andrew Seth Pringle-Pattison (1856-1931) and Samuel Alexander (1859-1938). Beginning in the 1940s, Hartshorne examined numerous conceptions of God. He reviewed and discarded pantheism, deism, and pandeism in favor of panentheism, finding that such a “doctrine contains all of deism and pandeism except their arbitrary negations.” Hartshorne formulated God as the one who could become “more perfect”: He has absolute perfection in categories for which absolute perfection is possible, and relative perfection (i.e., is superior to all others) in categories for which perfection cannot be precisely determined.
==========================================
THE PRACTICAL RESULTS that come from unitheism—being in tune with total good
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
The healing arts of psychotherapy (Freud, Jung, Adler and others) and logotherapy (Dr. Viktor E. Frankl of Vienna—“Man’s Search for Meaning”)—all are very similar and congruent with what I call pneumatherapy—the spirit-based art that I like to use. Ask me about it, OK?
Freud, Jung’s mentor, focused on the human and material need to avoid pain and get pleasure; Jung, the student of Freud, went beyond his mentor and focused on our need for spirituality. Adler spoke of the human craving for power, but Viktor Frankl spoke of the human need to find meaning and purpose in life.

21 QUOTES BY THE LATE DR. VIKTOR FRANKL
http://deanlindsay.com/viktor-frankl/viktor-frankl-quotes-21-best/comment-page-1/#comment-6151

THIS INSPIRED ME TO WRITE:
In my opinion, G~0~D is not a human-like being—one with a gender and box-like dimensions and confined to space and time. But rather, G~0~D is all that is GOOD, ORDERLY & DESIRABLE—ours simply for the choosing.
===========
Viktor E. Frankl Quotes at BrainyQuote.com
http://www.brainyquote.com

Viktor E. Frankl quotes from BrainyQuote.com an extensive collection of quotations by famous authors, celebrities, and newsmakers.

[ Edited: 20 April 2012 06:54 PM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 20 April 2012 02:59 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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RevLGKing - 19 April 2012 09:27 PM
mid atlantic - 19 April 2012 03:20 AM

Process theology seems to me, vaguely like “believing in the belief” in some higher power. Is your concept of G~O~D basically a philosophical concept akin to a sort of life force, or power of information?  To be more clear, a belief that everything that happens and that is, is the definition of G~O~D?

MA: Thanks! Your comment and questions, neither loaded nor rhetorical, are of the kind that promotes having a healthy dialogue and win/win kind of games. Very helpful. 

ABOUT PROCESS THEOLOGY & PANENTHEISM—what, to avoid confusion with pantheism, I CALL UNITHEISM
The German philosopher Karl Christian Friedrich Krause (1781–1832) seeking to reconcile monotheism and pantheism, coined the term panentheism (“all in God”) in 1828. This conception of God influenced New England transcendentalists such as Ralph Waldo Emerson.

The term was popularized by the Rev. Charles Hartshorne in his development of process theology and has also been adopted by proponents of various New Thought beliefs. The formalization of this term in the West in the 18th century was of course not new; philosophical treatises had been written on it in the context of Hinduism for millennia.

Other philosophers, who embraced panentheism, have included Thomas Hill Green (1839-1882), James Ward (1843-1925), Andrew Seth Pringle-Pattison (1856-1931) and Samuel Alexander (1859-1938). Beginning in the 1940s, Hartshorne examined numerous conceptions of God. He reviewed and discarded pantheism, deism, and pandeism in favor of panentheism, finding that such a “doctrine contains all of deism and pandeism except their arbitrary negations.” Hartshorne formulated God as the one who could become “more perfect”: He has absolute perfection in categories for which absolute perfection is possible, and relative perfection (i.e., is superior to all others) in categories for which perfection cannot be precisely determined.
==========================================
THE PRACTICAL RESULTS OF FINDING LIFE MEANINGFUL, ETERNAL AND INFINITE, IN G~0~D
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
The healing arts of psychotherapy (Freud, Jung, Adler and others) and logotherapy (Dr. Viktor E. Frankl of Vienna—“Man’s Search for Meaning”)—all are very similar and congruent with what I call pneumatherapy—the spirit-based art that I like to use. Ask me about it, OK?
Freud, Jung’s focused on the human need to avoid pain and get pleasure; Jung went beyond his mentor and focused on our need for spirituality. Adler spoke of the human craving for power, but Viktor Frankl spoke of the human need to find meaning and purpose in life.
Viktor E. Frankl Quotes at BrainyQuote.com
http://www.brainyquote.com

Viktor E. Frankl quotes from BrainyQuote.com an extensive collection of quotations by famous authors, celebrities, and newsmakers.

Panentheism is basically the belief that God is in everything, and everything is in God;  we still have to deal with the question of whether God exists or not.  To a non theist, any God concept is unbelievable, except perhaps for some very powerful alien intellegence that may have created our reality - sort of like the aliens in the movie “2001 A space Oddessy”.  I must respectfully admit that panentheism seems just as lacking in evidence as any other God belief - although it is somewhat attractive as a belief.

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Posted: 20 April 2012 01:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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MA, I just noticed this doublet-of-a-post. If it works, I will edit it out here and go on with my latest response, OK?

[ Edited: 22 April 2012 08:28 AM by RevLGKing ]
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Posted: 21 April 2012 02:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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RevLGKing - 20 April 2012 01:25 PM

ABOUT THE ART OF GROKING
MA, you say:

Panentheism is basically the belief that God is in everything, and everything is in God;  we still have to deal with the question of whether God exists or not. To a non theist, any God concept is unbelievable, except perhaps for some very powerful alien intelligence that may have created our reality - sort of like the aliens in the movie “2001 A space Oddessy”.  I must respectfully admit that panentheism seems just as lacking in evidence as any other God belief - although it is somewhat attractive as a belief.

MA, before for I say more, I will ask: Does it annoy you when writers, past and present—including me—create neologisms?—the use of new words with new meanings? I hope you grok my question http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok  Do you?

For example, the artist and a writer, Warren Farr and I—before we met on the Internet—concocted the word ‘unitheism’ and gave it the same meaning, independently of one another.  For what is going on between us now, check us out @  http://www.facebook.com/groups/unitheism/ 
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More on the neologism ‘grok’:

Word Origin & History
grok means “to understand empathically,” 1961, arbitrary formation by U.S. science fiction writer Robert Heinlein, in his book “Stranger in a Strange Land.” In use 1960s, perhaps obsolete now except in Internet technology circles.

Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010, Douglas Harper

Slang Dictionary grok [grɔk]  TV. to “drink” in a concept or knowledge and assimilate it; to understand something; to appreciate someone or something; to relate to someone or something. :  I don’t quite grok that. Run it by again, would you?

Dictionary of American Slang and Colloquial Expressions by Richard A. Spears.Fourth Edition.
Copyright 2007. Published by McGraw Hill.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grok?s=t

  Yes Rev. Linds, I think I grok; when I joined this forum, another member told me what “grok” means, as I was not familiar with Robert Heinlein.  To answer your question, it doesn’t bother me that much - as long as the term is clearly defined.

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Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

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