2 of 5
2
lower class whites lack “morality”
Posted: 08 May 2012 07:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 16 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2698
Joined  2011-04-24
CuthbertJ - 08 May 2012 01:17 PM

It’d certainly be comforting to think the problem is something sort of out of our control, like overpopulation.  But it’s not. It’s by design by some IMO very evil people.  I look at it this way.  Just because the Fascists were defeated in WW2 doesn’t mean their IDEAS were defeated.  The Fascists of today learned how NOT to proceed (i.e. no blustering Hitler, Moussilini types).  They’ve learned to control things from behind the scenes using what to most of us is obtuse economics theory. 

Don’t take my word for it though.  And don’t write off what I say as “conspiracy”.  Read for yourself, for example Shock Doctrine (Klein), or Overthrow (Kinzer).  Read up on the Chicago School of Economics, etc. It’s real and it’s happening worldwide.  Every case where you hear of an “austerity program being imposed” like in Greece, you’ll see the Chicago Schools theories being played out.  And the grief of the poor and middle class is just one symptom…by design.

Some rather sweeping statements; I’m not familiar with Kinzer, but Naomi Klein’s book is comfort food for conspiracy theorists.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 07:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 17 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  786
Joined  2012-04-25
mid atlantic - 08 May 2012 07:09 PM
CuthbertJ - 08 May 2012 01:17 PM

It’d certainly be comforting to think the problem is something sort of out of our control, like overpopulation.  But it’s not. It’s by design by some IMO very evil people.  I look at it this way.  Just because the Fascists were defeated in WW2 doesn’t mean their IDEAS were defeated.  The Fascists of today learned how NOT to proceed (i.e. no blustering Hitler, Moussilini types).  They’ve learned to control things from behind the scenes using what to most of us is obtuse economics theory. 

Don’t take my word for it though.  And don’t write off what I say as “conspiracy”.  Read for yourself, for example Shock Doctrine (Klein), or Overthrow (Kinzer).  Read up on the Chicago School of Economics, etc. It’s real and it’s happening worldwide.  Every case where you hear of an “austerity program being imposed” like in Greece, you’ll see the Chicago Schools theories being played out.  And the grief of the poor and middle class is just one symptom…by design.

Some rather sweeping statements; I’m not familiar with Kinzer, but Naomi Klein’s book is comfort food for conspiracy theorists.

You obviously haven’t read Shock Doctrine. It’s not speculation, it’s recognized as great reporting and documentation.  For the rest of the readers here, please don’t let blanket statements about things being conspiracy fool you.  Read them for yourself.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 08:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 18 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  419
Joined  2007-08-24

I’m seeing a major problem in America with how an entire group of Christian Conservatives has taken over our Republican Party.  They are using a group of disgruntled Republicans wanting all our children to be taught the bible and creation throughout our public schools.  In a way, Hitler wrote his own bible and his students were taught his values over the values of the nation of Germany.  It worked for him so why not America?

We have organized rehab trying to stop the drug and alcohol abuse and it runs on a 12-step program requiring a presents of a God or spirit to guide the addict.  It would be a perfect part of the academic curriculum to add it for all Children to follow. 

We are sitting on a Presidential election in November where not only the White House is up for grabs bur our entire 538 House of Representatives.  The whole two-party American system has been replaced with Republicans taking oaths of making all members to be part of the Religious Right under the banner of “Conservatives.”  They are dancing in the streets this morning at the loss of Senator Lugar who lost his seat to a member of the Tea Party.  Lugar had 37 years as a bi-partisan Republican.  He was a man who could work across the aisle without difficulty. 

The Religious Right could take control of the GOP and push their Constitutional Amendment to prohibit abortions, gay and women rights and promote Jesus Christ is all our public schools.  My group who has been working across America state by state to allow a doctor’s assisted suicide when the pain of disease is too much for the patient to handle.  There will be no choices left for any American. 

I don’t know if this rant would fit into a lower class white category but I personally resent anyone using the label of lacking morality on anyone.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 09:15 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 19 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2423
Joined  2007-07-05
George - 08 May 2012 01:28 PM
CuthbertJ - 08 May 2012 01:17 PM

It’d certainly be comforting to think the problem is something sort of out of our control, like overpopulation.

Why on earth would that be comforting?

Yeah, WHY?

 Signature 

Fiziks is Fundamental

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 10:00 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 20 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2423
Joined  2007-07-05
garythehuman - 08 May 2012 03:21 PM

The Chicago School has been a major player, providing intellectual cover, in the attack on the Keynesian underpinnings of FDR’s New Deal and Kennedy/Johnson’s Great Society.  The results of this undermining of Keynesian economics is a return to the skewed economics of US society of the roaring 20s and to the greater income disparties that exisited before the depression on the 1930s, with all the social problems that entails.  Remember this economic basic: Reduced mass markets equal reduced economic oppurunity to all those except those favored elities currently in power.

I asked a PhD economist at the University of Chicago to explain how a piston engine worked.  He couldn’t do it.  And I have seen this dude on television talking about economics.

The technology evolves and forces evolution in the economy but the thinking about economics doesn’t evolve much.  The economists are fixated on money and that everything can be measured and judged in those terms.

But the attitude about the lower classes being workers has not changed since the 19th century.  Economists are not workers.  But they don’t understand the technology that modern workers produce.  A little science fiction could add to todays perspective and they are both old.

Piano Player by Kurt Vonnegut
The Space Merchants by Frederick Pohl

The first is about technology taking jobs and the second is about marketing.

The economics profession is either in never never land or just lying.

But I don’t recall anyone writing about people having mainframe processing power in their pockets.

psik

 Signature 

Fiziks is Fundamental

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 10:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 21 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2698
Joined  2011-04-24
CuthbertJ - 09 May 2012 07:42 AM
mid atlantic - 08 May 2012 07:09 PM
CuthbertJ - 08 May 2012 01:17 PM

It’d certainly be comforting to think the problem is something sort of out of our control, like overpopulation.  But it’s not. It’s by design by some IMO very evil people.  I look at it this way.  Just because the Fascists were defeated in WW2 doesn’t mean their IDEAS were defeated.  The Fascists of today learned how NOT to proceed (i.e. no blustering Hitler, Moussilini types).  They’ve learned to control things from behind the scenes using what to most of us is obtuse economics theory. 

Don’t take my word for it though.  And don’t write off what I say as “conspiracy”.  Read for yourself, for example Shock Doctrine (Klein), or Overthrow (Kinzer).  Read up on the Chicago School of Economics, etc. It’s real and it’s happening worldwide.  Every case where you hear of an “austerity program being imposed” like in Greece, you’ll see the Chicago Schools theories being played out.  And the grief of the poor and middle class is just one symptom…by design.

Some rather sweeping statements; I’m not familiar with Kinzer, but Naomi Klein’s book is comfort food for conspiracy theorists.

You obviously haven’t read Shock Doctrine. It’s not speculation, it’s recognized as great reporting and documentation.  For the rest of the readers here, please don’t let blanket statements about things being conspiracy fool you.  Read them for yourself.

A book can be engaging and well written, and still be over exaggerated.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 01:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 22 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  786
Joined  2012-04-25
mid atlantic - 09 May 2012 10:55 AM
CuthbertJ - 09 May 2012 07:42 AM
mid atlantic - 08 May 2012 07:09 PM
CuthbertJ - 08 May 2012 01:17 PM

It’d certainly be comforting to think the problem is something sort of out of our control, like overpopulation.  But it’s not. It’s by design by some IMO very evil people.  I look at it this way.  Just because the Fascists were defeated in WW2 doesn’t mean their IDEAS were defeated.  The Fascists of today learned how NOT to proceed (i.e. no blustering Hitler, Moussilini types).  They’ve learned to control things from behind the scenes using what to most of us is obtuse economics theory. 

Don’t take my word for it though.  And don’t write off what I say as “conspiracy”.  Read for yourself, for example Shock Doctrine (Klein), or Overthrow (Kinzer).  Read up on the Chicago School of Economics, etc. It’s real and it’s happening worldwide.  Every case where you hear of an “austerity program being imposed” like in Greece, you’ll see the Chicago Schools theories being played out.  And the grief of the poor and middle class is just one symptom…by design.

Some rather sweeping statements; I’m not familiar with Kinzer, but Naomi Klein’s book is comfort food for conspiracy theorists.

You obviously haven’t read Shock Doctrine. It’s not speculation, it’s recognized as great reporting and documentation.  For the rest of the readers here, please don’t let blanket statements about things being conspiracy fool you.  Read them for yourself.

A book can be engaging and well written, and still be over exaggerated.

True. Luckily Shock Doctrine isn’t one of those.  Just read the book.  Also ask yourself about the uprisings in South America over the last several decades. Much of what Shock Doctrine describes took place in South America. And within the last several decades the chickens have started coming home to roost as they say.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 01:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 23 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  786
Joined  2012-04-25
psikeyhackr - 09 May 2012 09:15 AM
George - 08 May 2012 01:28 PM
CuthbertJ - 08 May 2012 01:17 PM

It’d certainly be comforting to think the problem is something sort of out of our control, like overpopulation.

Why on earth would that be comforting?

Yeah, WHY?

In the sense that there’s something natural about it and the “solution” so to speak is natural (though horrible, meaning the Malthusian solution).  Whereas the idea that there are evil people out there actively pursuing evil aims at the expense of the average joe, to me at least, is WAY more unsettling.  The first is caused by human nature I guess, the desire for children.  The second though is purposeful and planned, along the lines of “the banality of evil”.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 02:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 24 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9301
Joined  2006-08-29

Fascinating…

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 05:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 25 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  2698
Joined  2011-04-24
CuthbertJ - 09 May 2012 01:48 PM
mid atlantic - 09 May 2012 10:55 AM
CuthbertJ - 09 May 2012 07:42 AM
mid atlantic - 08 May 2012 07:09 PM
CuthbertJ - 08 May 2012 01:17 PM

It’d certainly be comforting to think the problem is something sort of out of our control, like overpopulation.  But it’s not. It’s by design by some IMO very evil people.  I look at it this way.  Just because the Fascists were defeated in WW2 doesn’t mean their IDEAS were defeated.  The Fascists of today learned how NOT to proceed (i.e. no blustering Hitler, Moussilini types).  They’ve learned to control things from behind the scenes using what to most of us is obtuse economics theory. 

Don’t take my word for it though.  And don’t write off what I say as “conspiracy”.  Read for yourself, for example Shock Doctrine (Klein), or Overthrow (Kinzer).  Read up on the Chicago School of Economics, etc. It’s real and it’s happening worldwide.  Every case where you hear of an “austerity program being imposed” like in Greece, you’ll see the Chicago Schools theories being played out.  And the grief of the poor and middle class is just one symptom…by design.

Some rather sweeping statements; I’m not familiar with Kinzer, but Naomi Klein’s book is comfort food for conspiracy theorists.

You obviously haven’t read Shock Doctrine. It’s not speculation, it’s recognized as great reporting and documentation.  For the rest of the readers here, please don’t let blanket statements about things being conspiracy fool you.  Read them for yourself.

A book can be engaging and well written, and still be over exaggerated.

True. Luckily Shock Doctrine isn’t one of those.  Just read the book.  Also ask yourself about the uprisings in South America over the last several decades. Much of what Shock Doctrine describes took place in South America. And within the last several decades the chickens have started coming home to roost as they say.

I have read it before, and found the flavor of the book silly.  What happened in South America is typical of those nations, and what we did there is typical of what we do.  No big secret.

 Signature 

Raise your glass if you’re wrong…. in all the right ways.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 07:34 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 26 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4843
Joined  2007-10-05
psikeyhackr - 09 May 2012 10:00 AM

I asked a PhD economist at the University of Chicago to explain how a piston engine worked.  He couldn’t do it.  And I have seen this dude on television talking about economics.

BFD. Would you ask a mechanical engineer to explain economics?

 Signature 

You cannot have a rational conversation with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 07:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 27 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  9301
Joined  2006-08-29

I wouldn’t even try asking an economist to explain economics.  grin

Profile
 
 
Posted: 09 May 2012 07:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 28 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4843
Joined  2007-10-05
George - 09 May 2012 07:54 PM

I wouldn’t even try asking an economist to explain economics.  grin

Yeah, neither would I.

 Signature 

You cannot have a rational conversation with someone who holds irrational beliefs.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 12 May 2012 10:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 29 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4576
Joined  2008-08-14
Occam. - 08 March 2012 10:59 AM

As I see it there’s a great correlation over the last 50 years between the degradation Murray sees and the carefully planned dismantling of our educational system.  If one looks at the U.S. prior to, say, 1935 the same criticisms could be made because there were few jobs available to the lower class, uneducated people and there was widespread poverty.  Between the training that was given in the armed forces and of the people who were at home to fill the jobs not formerly available to them, then the G.I. Bill after the war, we made huge advances in educating our citizens. 

By 1960 we began defunding schools and raising tuitions.  Preschools in poorer districts were phased out so the kids there were at a disadvantage by the first grade.  You can’t expect discouraged children to be interested in learning when they just face repeated failure.  With no education and no prospect for decent jobs we got what the plutocrats planned—a growing class of peons who can be manipulated and not participate in voting.

Occam

Excellent insight.  Only the end of your statement is kind of hazy.  I don’t think any plutocracy planned any of this.  I think it was just a by-product of myopic greed. 
The myopia extends right up to the ‘80s -‘90s when globalization starts kicking in full-swing.  All of our benchmarks concerning American Prosperity stem from the Industrial-Manufacturing era. 
Nobody planned globalization.  Thousands of entrepeneurs and speculators and bankers cashed in on exporting jobs overseas, then pocketing profits made from sellingcheap crap made by ignorant hungry people and then sold back to Americans.
By ignorant hungry people I mean millions of people in countries like China and India.  These are the citizens of nations embarking on a massive economical re-organization that is very similiar to the USSRs in the 1930s.  Primarily peasants and agricultural workers who are semi-literate and are enticed into cities to work in factories and manufacturing plants.  They are wholly ignorant of any modicum of wage structure, safety, labor relations etc. It’s a huge tectonic shift in world economics. This is why we(the US) are not going to recover to the levels of prosperity we have seen in the past.  Remember the benchmark.
I don’t want to credit any critique of any lower class people as lacking morality.  What a piece of effluvia that author is!
Whatever his idea of morality is though…I hope he sees it sink lower and lower.  Commensurate with the sinking value of the American Dream.

 Signature 

Row row row your boat gently down the stream.  Merrily Merrily merrily merrily life is but a dream!

Profile
 
 
Posted: 13 May 2012 12:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 30 ]
Moderator
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  5551
Joined  2010-06-16

Quoting Vyazma: 

I don’t think any plutocracy planned any of this.  I think it was just a by-product of myopic greed.

  Vyazma, google the Powell Manifesto.  Read the background - how it came about - then read the whole damned thing.  It was a blueprint for reversing the trend toward a more educated, more liberal society, and it’s been instituted pretty thoroughly over the last forty years.

Occam

 Signature 

Succinctness, clarity’s core.

Profile
 
 
   
2 of 5
2