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Climate change killing mighty trees in Alaska
Posted: 05 March 2012 04:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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George - 05 March 2012 03:54 PM
Write4U - 05 March 2012 03:31 PM

Well, I have been looking out my window in NO. Idaho for the last 10 years and I have observed less snow and even as I am not a scientist, I am a skeptic and I do wonder about the cause. Vermont is not a single conversational example. The pattern is world wide, more or less.

Isn’t Europe getting more snow than the usual?

True, but GW is especially damaging in the colder polar regions and the marginal climates of the tropics. One can cite that draughts around the world have increased. The GW brings with it climate change, thus it is to be expected that weather patterns are shifting as well as causing the current migration of animals and fauna.

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Posted: 05 March 2012 04:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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Write4U - 05 March 2012 03:59 PM
FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 03:44 PM
Write4U - 05 March 2012 03:31 PM
FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 12:28 PM

This statement is odd enough to warrant a second look:

“I’m looking out my window and we have a dusting of snow at best,” Schaberg said from his Vermont office. “And the soils are frozen all over the place, which is not the norm at all. So even just this one component of changing climate — reduced snow packs…i

This scientist expects that by looking out his window in Vermont, and if he sees there is only a dusting of snow today, it means….

This nice inclusion draws an extra note of caution about the article.

Well, I have been looking out my window in NO. Idaho for the last 10 years and I have observed less snow and even as I am not a scientist, I am a skeptic and I do wonder about the cause. Vermont is not a single conversational example. The pattern is world wide, more or less.
That little inclusion draws an extra note of caution about “dismissing” the article, don’t you think?

No, because I expect better from a scientist talking to the public.

Do you infer that this “looking out the window” was the sole basis for his conclusions on GW? Or just a little aside which confirms his scholarly work.

Write4U, I do not explicitly know his beliefs or the basis for beliefs regarding GW. I would assume he has other reasons for his conclusions.

Is he giving an aside which CONFORMS - not confirms- yes. But I would not guess that it was his own scholarly work, most likely. He’s a plant pathologist, after all. My guess would be that he believes certain things for the same reasons your or I do…such as trust in source. Then he was just saying ...“There goes that critter right there outside my window”

[ Edited: 05 March 2012 04:15 PM by FrenchCurve ]
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Posted: 05 March 2012 04:20 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 03:44 PM
Write4U - 05 March 2012 03:31 PM
FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 12:28 PM

This statement is odd enough to warrant a second look:

“I’m looking out my window and we have a dusting of snow at best,” Schaberg said from his Vermont office. “And the soils are frozen all over the place, which is not the norm at all. So even just this one component of changing climate — reduced snow packs…i

This scientist expects that by looking out his window in Vermont, and if he sees there is only a dusting of snow today, it means….

This nice inclusion draws an extra note of caution about the article.

Well, I have been looking out my window in NO. Idaho for the last 10 years and I have observed less snow and even as I am not a scientist, I am a skeptic and I do wonder about the cause. Vermont is not a single conversational example. The pattern is world wide, more or less.
That little inclusion draws an extra note of caution about “dismissing” the article, don’t you think?

No, because
1. I expect better from a scientist talking to the public.
2. I did not dismiss the article. I’m quite interested and even used it to tell you what you apparently hadn’t bothered to read.

Apparently you only bothered to focus on the casual remark of a scientist looking out his window.  Are we engaging in a discussion or trying to rack up points? I have taken the time to be courteous and provide several links to reliable information.

Please provide me with links that seem to have influenced your decision to raise questions about the veracity of scientists, while you have not bothered to provide a single reliable link to a study that disproves the current scientific concensus.

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Posted: 05 March 2012 04:23 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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Write4U - 05 March 2012 04:20 PM
FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 03:44 PM
Write4U - 05 March 2012 03:31 PM
FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 12:28 PM

This statement is odd enough to warrant a second look:

“I’m looking out my window and we have a dusting of snow at best,” Schaberg said from his Vermont office. “And the soils are frozen all over the place, which is not the norm at all. So even just this one component of changing climate — reduced snow packs…i

This scientist expects that by looking out his window in Vermont, and if he sees there is only a dusting of snow today, it means….

This nice inclusion draws an extra note of caution about the article.

Well, I have been looking out my window in NO. Idaho for the last 10 years and I have observed less snow and even as I am not a scientist, I am a skeptic and I do wonder about the cause. Vermont is not a single conversational example. The pattern is world wide, more or less.
That little inclusion draws an extra note of caution about “dismissing” the article, don’t you think?

No, because
1. I expect better from a scientist talking to the public.
2. I did not dismiss the article. I’m quite interested and even used it to tell you what you apparently hadn’t bothered to read.

Apparently you only bothered to focus on the casual remark of a scientist looking out his window. 

for a couple of sentences.
What I otherwise bothered to focus on was that the LIA ended right then. I thought I detected a glimmer of interest at that…no ?

[ Edited: 05 March 2012 04:27 PM by FrenchCurve ]
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Posted: 05 March 2012 04:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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DarronS - 05 March 2012 04:04 PM
Write4U - 05 March 2012 04:01 PM
DarronS - 05 March 2012 03:41 PM
Write4U - 22 February 2012 04:50 PM

Cedar especially is a human friendly species for its excellent properties.

Except the millions of people in Texas who suffer from cedar pollen allergies every winter.

Yellow Cedar?

Mountain Cedar with red pollen. Wicked stuff. Sucks a lot of our precious water out of the ground too. They’ve taken over the Hill Country because deer won’t eat the seeds. Can’t say I blame ‘em.

Cedar: The Plague of Texas

Well yes, the tree has excellent defenses. Can’t blame the tree. But cedar is still one of the most versatile wood products in the world. Ask your Texas cattlemen what they use for fencing, shingles, or for bug free closets.

From your link,

Junipers (aka Cedars), are causing enormous problems for central Texas.  For example, the area of infestation in Texas already has a terrific problem with water shortages throughout the year. During years when rainfall is less than normal (approximately 30 inches), the juniper is absorbing ground water at an alarming rate.

There is you GW at work. But more pertinent is this,

Some juniper trees are misleadingly given the common name “cedar,” including Juniperus virginiana, the “red cedar” that is used widely in cedar drawers.

While the yellow cedar is this,

Yellow-Cedar is one of the world’s most durable woods with exceptional longevity. It is renowned for its strength and natural resistance to weather, rot and termites. Yellow-Cedar provides a “green” alternative to chemically treated wood for outdoor decking, fencing, marine pilings, docks and other structures in fresh water. It is well suited to coastal environments and termite-infested regions.

Yellow-Cedar’s attractive white-yellow color, fine texture and workability make it an excellent choice for furniture, residential construction and restoration projects.

Dense, tough and close-grained, it withstands impact well and does not splinter - ideal for benches, outdoor furniture and playground structures.

Dang, those Texans need to learn a little more about trees…they are only familiar with Bushes…... cheese .
http://www.yellow-cedar.com/

[ Edited: 05 March 2012 04:43 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 05 March 2012 04:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Write4U - 05 March 2012 04:31 PM

Well yes, the tree has excellent defenses. Can’t blame the tree. But cedar is still one of the most versatile wood products in the world. Ask your Texas cattlemen what they use for fencing, shingles, or for bug free closets

The cedars in Texas are noxious weeds, but they do make beautiful furniture and support beams in housing.

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Posted: 05 March 2012 04:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 12:33 PM

From Wiki;

...Little Ice Age (LIA) was a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period (Medieval Climate Optimum).[1] While not a true ice age, the term was introduced into the scientific literature by François E. Matthes in 1939.[2] It is conventionally defined as a period extending from the 16th to the 19th centuries,[3][4][5] though climatologists and historians working with local records no longer expect to agree on either the start or end dates of this period, which varied according to local conditions. NASA defines the term as a cold period between 1550 AD and 1850 AD and notes three particularly cold intervals: one beginning about 1650, another about 1770, and the last in 1850, each separated by intervals of slight warming…

One could infer that it got warmer after that : )

Here in my WIKI reference I note it says NASA says in general terms that the LIA ended in 1850 and the last really long cold snap started in 1850.

[ Edited: 05 March 2012 04:46 PM by FrenchCurve ]
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Posted: 05 March 2012 04:46 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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DarronS - 05 March 2012 04:40 PM
Write4U - 05 March 2012 04:31 PM

Well yes, the tree has excellent defenses. Can’t blame the tree. But cedar is still one of the most versatile wood products in the world. Ask your Texas cattlemen what they use for fencing, shingles, or for bug free closets

The cedars in Texas are noxious weeds, but they do make beautiful furniture and support beams in housing.

Well, Junipers seem to have some redeeming qualities, even as they are not Cedars.

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Posted: 05 March 2012 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Write4U - 05 March 2012 04:11 PM
George - 05 March 2012 03:54 PM
Write4U - 05 March 2012 03:31 PM

Well, I have been looking out my window in NO. Idaho for the last 10 years and I have observed less snow and even as I am not a scientist, I am a skeptic and I do wonder about the cause. Vermont is not a single conversational example. The pattern is world wide, more or less.

Isn’t Europe getting more snow than the usual?

True,

So it is a world wide pattern of less snow cover or is not ?  Perhaps a spotty pattern world wide ?
Write4U, it is quite acceptable to be in error or to not really know, don’t get me wrong, we all have some misconceptions, no doubt.

[ Edited: 05 March 2012 05:03 PM by FrenchCurve ]
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Posted: 05 March 2012 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 04:44 PM
FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 12:33 PM

From Wiki;

...Little Ice Age (LIA) was a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period (Medieval Climate Optimum).[1] While not a true ice age, the term was introduced into the scientific literature by François E. Matthes in 1939.[2] It is conventionally defined as a period extending from the 16th to the 19th centuries,[3][4][5] though climatologists and historians working with local records no longer expect to agree on either the start or end dates of this period, which varied according to local conditions. NASA defines the term as a cold period between 1550 AD and 1850 AD and notes three particularly cold intervals: one beginning about 1650, another about 1770, and the last in 1850, each separated by intervals of slight warming…

One could infer that it got warmer after that : )

Here in my WIKI reference I note it says NASA says in general terms that the LIA ended in 1850 and the last really long cold snap started in 1850.

And how does one explain “ended in 1850” and “started in 1850”? 

While I respect NASA, their observation are no less “observational” in “general terms” that someone looking out their window.

IMO, now that we are “focusing” on causality and consequences of GW and CC with dedicated instruments used by experts, I tend to believe the latest and “specific” information that is emerging from the data.

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Posted: 05 March 2012 05:54 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Write4U - 05 March 2012 05:21 PM
FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 04:44 PM
FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 12:33 PM

From Wiki;

...Little Ice Age (LIA) was a period of cooling that occurred after the Medieval Warm Period (Medieval Climate Optimum).[1] While not a true ice age, the term was introduced into the scientific literature by François E. Matthes in 1939.[2] It is conventionally defined as a period extending from the 16th to the 19th centuries,[3][4][5] though climatologists and historians working with local records no longer expect to agree on either the start or end dates of this period, which varied according to local conditions. NASA defines the term as a cold period between 1550 AD and 1850 AD and notes three particularly cold intervals: one beginning about 1650, another about 1770, and the last in 1850, each separated by intervals of slight warming…

One could infer that it got warmer after that : )

Here in my WIKI reference I note it says NASA says in general terms that the LIA ended in 1850 and the last really long cold snap started in 1850.

And how does one explain “ended in 1850” and “started in 1850”? 

Precisely. That is what I focused on now. However, I am prepared to accept science that says it ended in 1850 or 1880 or whatever it turns out to be. It’s either WIKI or NASA giving what is to me a slightly confusing message there.

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Posted: 05 March 2012 06:01 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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Write4U - 05 March 2012 05:21 PM

While I respect NASA, their observation are no less “observational” in “general terms” that someone looking out their window.

IMO, now that we are “focusing” on causality and consequences of GW and CC with dedicated instruments used by experts, I tend to believe the latest and “specific” information that is emerging from the data.

I’m also interested in what happened to the trees after the “peak” mortality they mention in 1970/1980.

Here is a link that might provide some more questions http://www.appinsys.com/globalwarming/RS_Alaska.htm

[ Edited: 05 March 2012 06:12 PM by FrenchCurve ]
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Posted: 05 March 2012 06:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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This tends to worry me,

http://globalwarming.house.gov/impactzones/greenland
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/opinion/predicting-the-rise-of-sea-levels-and-storm-surges-20120228-1u0xj.html
http://www.ted.com/talks/garth_lenz_images_of_beauty_and_devastation.html

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Posted: 05 March 2012 06:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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I wonder if mortality peaked when temps were lowest, in the 1970/80 era ?

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Posted: 05 March 2012 06:26 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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FrenchCurve - 05 March 2012 06:01 PM
Write4U - 05 March 2012 05:21 PM

While I respect NASA, their observation are no less “observational” in “general terms” that someone looking out their window.

IMO, now that we are “focusing” on causality and consequences of GW and CC with dedicated instruments used by experts, I tend to believe the latest and “specific” information that is emerging from the data.

I’m also interested in what happened to the trees after the “peak” mortality they mention in 1970/1980.

Here is a link that might provide some more questions http://www.appinsys.com/globalwarming/RS_Alaska.htm

We’ll just have to wait until more snow cover disappears in different areas. Unfortunately (perhaps fortunately) this is a slow process and takes decades to reveal itself. One thing is clear, even if we manage to transplant new trees to more favorable sites, we’ll have to wait a 1000 years to witness trees of “just the right size” (as Romney puts it).

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