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Qurans on the Barbie
Posted: 21 February 2012 07:42 PM   [ Ignore ]
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57381495/u.s-probes-alleged-quran-burning-in-afghanistan/  Uproar over Qurans that were burnt at a U.S. Air Base in Afghanistan; hopefully we’ll still get out of there soon.

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Posted: 22 February 2012 08:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
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I have no respect for people who believe in Mother Goose, a flat earth, and the idea that God exists and made the world just for us.  I have no respect for religions that require a belief in supernatural things and the immortality of the soul.  However, Islam is a very special religion.  It also incorporates the additional emotion of fear.  If you do anything that might upset Muslims – they just might riot and kill you!
  It is pathetic that they have been so effectively and completely programmed to obey whatever they have been told.  The Koran tells them to be violent at any perceived or imaginary insult to Islam.
  I also have a Holy Book.  It is “The Gospel According to Acharya S” written by Goddess D. M. Murdock.  I would not care if this book were burned.  The book is only paper.  It is the ideas that are contained within the book that are sacred – and those ideas cannot be destroyed by fire. Evidently, some people are simply unable to grasp that concept.

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Posted: 22 February 2012 07:19 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
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Off topic - sorry.  I have a reference shelf above and to the left of my computer.  It had a dictionary, a thesaurus, a bible and a dictionary of philosophy.  On the shelf above it there was a small electric clock.  I just checked something in the thesaurus, went to put it back on top of the dictionary and bible.  The bible slid out carrying all of the books with it, and yanking the electric clock cord.  I picked up the books but saw the clock had broken.  My next step was to toss the stupid bible in the recycle container.  Who knows - maybe some good paper reclaiming company can turn it into something useful, say, a 500 sheet roll.

Occam

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Posted: 23 February 2012 01:28 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
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Ever think that those protesting the Koran burnings may be protesting the foriegn invasion of thier culture as much as the incident itself?

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Gary the Human

All the Gods and all religions are created by humans, to meet human needs and accomplish human ends.

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Posted: 23 February 2012 02:55 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
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garythehuman - 23 February 2012 01:28 PM

Ever think that those protesting the Koran burnings may be protesting the foriegn invasion of thier culture as much as the incident itself?

I’m sure that’s part of it.

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Posted: 23 February 2012 06:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
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Right.  If it had been one of their citizens who burned the Korans, they would have merely quietly beheaded him without protesting.

Occam

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Posted: 26 February 2012 09:27 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
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Occam. - 23 February 2012 06:31 PM

Right.  If it had been one of their citizens who burned the Korans, they would have merely quietly beheaded him without protesting.

Occam

And if you burn a Bible here, we have our fundies who would like to do the same.  Fortunately we live in a much more organized society than Afganistan and have made rules against those violent responses.

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Posted: 26 February 2012 09:45 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
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garythehuman - 26 February 2012 09:27 AM
Occam. - 23 February 2012 06:31 PM

Right.  If it had been one of their citizens who burned the Korans, they would have merely quietly beheaded him without protesting.

Occam

And if you burn a Bible here, we have our fundies who would like to do the same.  Fortunately we live in a much more organized society than Afganistan and have made rules against those violent responses.

Very true! We are not a better people; just more fortunate.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 09:21 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
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While I have no special regard for any of the Abrahamic cults, I think we may be missing the point here on some level as to why this incident is a problem. We’re involved in a country…if you can call it that…where this sort of thing is taken VERY seriously, and for some odd reason, local cultures tend to get upset when “Them durned furriegners” show an indifference and even contempt for their sensibilities. It doesn’t matter whether it’s over something which is religious, secular, or a combination of both.

In sum, when one is trying to win hearts and minds (Governments have quite the obsession with this catchphrase.) you don’t achieve that by honking off the people one is trying to win over.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 10:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
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It is religion itself that has enslaved the people by capturing their hearts and minds.  Can Science and Education free them?

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If your belief is true, the data will confirm it.  If your belief is false, then you need faith to believe it.
Religions that demand respect the most - are the religions that merit respect the least.
If you are offended by attacks on your religion, then your religion has programmed you well.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 10 ]
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I do have to agree with E.O.C.  Burning the books that the citizens there attach so much importance to was incredibly stupid.

I was thinking that the U.S. might molify them by stating that they will take the persons responsible for that back to the United States for trial, then report that they were found guilty and sentenced to life in prison, but really just release them back to civilian life.  However, I realized than anyone dumb enough to burn those books would also be dumb enough to brag about it publicly after being released.

Occam

[ Edited: 27 February 2012 11:34 AM by Occam. ]
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Posted: 27 February 2012 11:52 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 11 ]
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There appears to be more to this than burning the Korans, and why would someone confess to it in the first place? Knowing the volatile reaction an incident like this would generate is incredibly stupid! Therre are, however more greivences out there. See below:


http://news.yahoo.com/koran-burning-riots-u-afghan-soldiers-together-142000334.html

Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 27 February 2012 03:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 12 ]
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Ted Tyler - 27 February 2012 10:12 AM

It is religion itself that has enslaved the people by capturing their hearts and minds.  Can Science and Education free them?


I disagree.  In this case IMO, religion is being used, as in many time and places, as an organizing tool by the native populations against foreign interlopers.  Science and education may provide knowledge and technology but by themselves they do not organize societies.  Religion is a human tool that does this, we non-believers need to find and/or invent other tools to do the same before we can make religion “go away.”

BTW I have just read a new (to me) definition of religion that seems fairly accurate:

“. . . religion is a system of symbols that when enacted by human beings, establishes powerful, pervasive and long lasting moods and motivations that make sense in terms of an idea of a general order of existence.”  Clifford Geertz’

Notice, no mention of a “supreme being.”  Seems useful to me.

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Posted: 27 February 2012 03:11 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 13 ]
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Thevillageatheist - 27 February 2012 11:52 AM

There appears to be more to this than burning the Korans, and why would someone confess to it in the first place? Knowing the volatile reaction an incident like this would generate is incredibly stupid! Therre are, however more greivences out there. See below:


http://news.yahoo.com/koran-burning-riots-u-afghan-soldiers-together-142000334.html

Cap’t Jack

Good article. 

The orginal burning incident was not intentional, it was pure sloppiness the books were burned not as Korans but had been thrown in the trash with the rest of the garbage, if I remember correctly.  Perhaps the entire mess could have been avoided if these books had been disposed of with the proper respect by the proper authorities under their religious rules. 

“War is politics by other means.”

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Posted: 28 February 2012 09:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 14 ]
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It is religion itself that has enslaved the people by capturing their hearts and minds.

While some would differ on that point, I’ll accept that stipulation for the sake of arguement.

The problem remains however that if you wish to get people to change, you don’t do so by going in and offending their cultural sensibilities from the gitgo. Having a better idea is all well and good but if a people decide you’re not even worth listening to because you you show a complete lack of respect for them, you’re merely urinating into the wind.

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Posted: 28 February 2012 10:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 15 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 28 February 2012 09:29 AM

It is religion itself that has enslaved the people by capturing their hearts and minds.

While some would differ on that point, I’ll accept that stipulation for the sake of arguement.

The problem remains however that if you wish to get people to change, you don’t do so by going in and offending their cultural sensibilities from the gitgo. Having a better idea is all well and good but if a people decide you’re not even worth listening to because you you show a complete lack of respect for them, you’re merely urinating into the wind.

Burnt korans or not, we nor anyone else are going to change those people.
The burnt korans are just part of the last chapter in the book of the Afghanistan war and all the futility and waste that our efforts there generated.
The burnt korans remind me of the the last remnants of the US and it’s cohorts escaping off of the roof of the US embassy in Saigon in 1973(?).
On a personal note however, I do welcome wholeheartedly any inflammation of relations with islam. I welcome all inflammations with any religion or between the religions.

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