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The Threat of Islam
Posted: 01 March 2012 08:54 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 91 ]
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Yes, quote the Fiddler on the Roof. That’ll do it. I am always amazed how ignorant Americans are on this topic. But I understand it.

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Posted: 01 March 2012 08:58 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 92 ]
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A couple of comments:

Antisemitism in the form of hatred for the Jews is directly involved in the very earliest formations of Christianity. For a good discussion of this topic, I recommend Dominick Crossan’s “Who Killed Jesus? - Exposing the Roots of Anti-Semitism in the Gospel Story of the Death of Jesus”. Viewing the Jews as outsiders or just plain different (weird?) in the thousands of years prior to the first century was clearly present in the earlier civilizations. That created a sort of zeitgeist about them and was prevalent long before the invention of Christianity, but none of those civilizations had real reason to “hate” them—after all, they didn’t kill their gods, they merely refused to worship them. That earns an eye-roll, but not a blood lust.

The Russian attitude towards and persecution of the Jews was absolutely the by-product of Christianity and pre-dates the invention of Communism by centuries. Shall I quote the town’s rabbi in Fiddler on the Roof? When asked if there is a proper blessing for the Czar, he replies, “May God bless and keep the Czar—Far away from us!” Many Jews supported and were early actors in the Bolshevik Revolution.


Finally! Someone who likes “Fiddler” and who can quote Crossan. I read that little book when it orignally came out. BTW George, Clark’s book is fascinating and hope to finish it very soon.


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Posted: 01 March 2012 09:18 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 93 ]
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George - 01 March 2012 08:54 AM

Yes, quote the Fiddler on the Roof. That’ll do it. I am always amazed how ignorant Americans are on this topic. But I understand it.

I am curious, George. Is this a resort to ad hominem out of bitterness, here?

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Posted: 01 March 2012 09:30 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 94 ]
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lreadl - 01 March 2012 09:18 AM
George - 01 March 2012 08:54 AM

Yes, quote the Fiddler on the Roof. That’ll do it. I am always amazed how ignorant Americans are on this topic. But I understand it.

I am curious, George. Is this a resort to ad hominem out of bitterness, here?

No. It’s out of desperation.

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Posted: 01 March 2012 10:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 95 ]
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George - 01 March 2012 09:30 AM
lreadl - 01 March 2012 09:18 AM
George - 01 March 2012 08:54 AM

Yes, quote the Fiddler on the Roof. That’ll do it. I am always amazed how ignorant Americans are on this topic. But I understand it.

I am curious, George. Is this a resort to ad hominem out of bitterness, here?

No. It’s out of desperation.

Don’t despair, George. (Pats George on head.)

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― Christopher Hitchens, Letters to a Young Contrarian

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—Philip K. Dick

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Posted: 01 March 2012 11:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 96 ]
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Let me qualify my remark on “Fiddler”, I like the music. It’s not history and I believe ireadl didn’t mean his remark to mean that it was in any way an historical reference. He was being ironic IMO. And in reference to the disparaging remark about Americans, yes we can read Slavic History! just not in the original language. Every high school student who has taken a course in World History is at least aware of the pograms in Russia and what motivated. them. Foul George.


Cap’t Jack

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Posted: 01 March 2012 04:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 97 ]
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George - 01 March 2012 08:09 AM
dougsmith - 01 March 2012 07:55 AM

I think by the time Communism came on the scene, this sort of casual, virulent anti-semitism was part of European culture. Its source, though, lies in millennia of Christian ideology. (As well as normal, tribal, us-vs.-them factors, of course).

Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree here. I believe that Europeans dislike the Jews because they can be powerful (see my previous post), which is why anybody in the U.S. (where the Jews have a lot more power than in Europe) can say a goodbye to his career the moment they publicly mention their opinion on the Jews. Just ask CNN’s Rick Sanchez or Mel Gibson. Sacha Baron Cohen, OTOH, mocking Eastern Europeans in Borat, is, well, a “comedy.”

Sasha Baron Cohen could have done better research for Borat couldn’t he? He was supposed to be a Kazakh, which he must think are interchangable with Arabic playboys.  It’s easy to fool Americans with geography.

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Posted: 01 March 2012 04:47 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 98 ]
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Well, a portion of the movie was filmed in Romania which is in Eastern Europe, and which made many Romanians very upset. But who cares about Romania, right? Anyway, the whole movie was one long “Polish joke,” but again who cares about the Slavs? It’s okay to mock the Slavs because they are neither black nor Jews.

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Posted: 01 March 2012 05:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 99 ]
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Essentially, it sounds like the Jewish populations’ access to money made them a threat to the church’s authority;  the powers that were at that time, understood human nature and made them into scapegoats for every possible thing and then reaped the benefits of their murders, imprisonment, banishment from the city, ect.  At the heart of the matter, it seems more like a typical power struggle - rather than a spiritual/religious battle.

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Posted: 01 March 2012 05:21 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 100 ]
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George - 01 March 2012 04:47 PM

Well, a portion of the movie was filmed in Romania which is in Eastern Europe, and which made many Romanians very upset. But who cares about Romania, right? Anyway, the whole movie was one long “Polish joke,” but again who cares about the Slavs? It’s okay to mock the Slavs because they are neither black nor Jews.

Were the Romanians mad because they felt Cohen stupidly equated them with Kazakhstan, or because Borat tried to give the impression that Eastern Europe is a “backwater”?

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Posted: 01 March 2012 05:44 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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Apparently internicine prejudice is rife in that part of Europe.  I recall many years ago, my dentist, who was Hungarian, said “The difference between a Hungarian and a Romanian is that they would both sell you their grandmothers, but the Romanian wouldn’t deliver.”

He was the dentist for the Hungarian members of the local movie industry, and he commented that they were the only ones who he required pay for dental services before he performed them.

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Posted: 01 March 2012 06:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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Occam. - 01 March 2012 05:44 PM

Apparently internicine prejudice is rife in that part of Europe.  I recall many years ago, my dentist, who was Hungarian, said “The difference between a Hungarian and a Romanian is that they would both sell you their grandmothers, but the Romanian wouldn’t deliver.”

He was the dentist for the Hungarian members of the local movie industry, and he commented that they were the only ones who he required pay for dental services before he performed them.

Occam

Maybe he did some work on Bela Lugosi?!

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Posted: 01 March 2012 07:07 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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mid atlantic - 01 March 2012 05:21 PM
George - 01 March 2012 04:47 PM

Well, a portion of the movie was filmed in Romania which is in Eastern Europe, and which made many Romanians very upset. But who cares about Romania, right? Anyway, the whole movie was one long “Polish joke,” but again who cares about the Slavs? It’s okay to mock the Slavs because they are neither black nor Jews.

Were the Romanians mad because they felt Cohen stupidly equated them with Kazakhstan, or because Borat tried to give the impression that Eastern Europe is a “backwater”?

From what I heard, Kazakhsatn got all defensive saying the movie was actually shot in Romania, and Romania defended itself saying that that’s not what a typical Romanian behaves like because Cohen hired a bunch of Gypsis as they were easier to manipulate and be taken advantage of. In the end Cohen managed to upset a lot of people but here nobody really seems to care. As I already said before, to get into trouble one has to be really mean and racist, like CNN’s Sanchez.

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Posted: 01 March 2012 08:02 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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George - 01 March 2012 07:07 PM
mid atlantic - 01 March 2012 05:21 PM
George - 01 March 2012 04:47 PM

Well, a portion of the movie was filmed in Romania which is in Eastern Europe, and which made many Romanians very upset. But who cares about Romania, right? Anyway, the whole movie was one long “Polish joke,” but again who cares about the Slavs? It’s okay to mock the Slavs because they are neither black nor Jews.

Were the Romanians mad because they felt Cohen stupidly equated them with Kazakhstan, or because Borat tried to give the impression that Eastern Europe is a “backwater”?

From what I heard, Kazakhsatn got all defensive saying the movie was actually shot in Romania, and Romania defended itself saying that that’s not what a typical Romanian behaves like because Cohen hired a bunch of Gypsis as they were easier to manipulate and be taken advantage of. In the end Cohen managed to upset a lot of people but here nobody really seems to care. As I already said before, to get into trouble one has to be really mean and racist, like CNN’s Sanchez.

I thought that the people in Borat’s “home villiage” did resemble stereotypical gypsies;  FWIW, I thought the the nude fighting scene in Borat was funny, but the rest of the movie was kind of tiresome.  Some Kazakhs were mad because a non - asian was portraying them (as the majority of Kazakhs are asian in appearence.)  Americans are vastly ignorant about Kazakhstan anyway, and as you said only black or latino or jewish stereotypes really get Americans talking.

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Posted: 17 March 2012 10:07 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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Ted did nail it. And these middle class terrorists needed the platform of Islam from which to grow.

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