so to speak
Posted: 06 March 2012 03:23 AM   [ Ignore ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2012-03-06

I do not believe in a god and I do not support the death penalty.  It’s shocking to me how inexplicable this stance seems to my religious friends/family.  I try to explain that morality and ethics can exist without religious influence and from their reactions, you’d think I had just pee’d on their King James.  That, in a nut shell, is what brought me here.

Hi.  I’m Tim and I pee on bibles.  oh oh

 Signature 

“Integrity has no need of rules”—Albert Camus

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 March 2012 03:33 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 1 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6021
Joined  2009-02-26
Gofannon - 06 March 2012 03:23 AM

I do not believe in a god and I do not support the death penalty.  It’s shocking to me how inexplicable this stance seems to my religious friends/family.  I try to explain that morality and ethics can exist without religious influence and from their reactions, you’d think I had just pee’d on their King James.  That, in a nut shell, is what brought me here.

Hi.  I’m Tim and I pee on bibles.  oh oh

Hi Tim,

Don’t pee on bibles. First it is an insult to your family and friends. Second, by doing that you will never convince anyone that they are wrong.
If you want to “communicate”, learn to speak the language of the listener. Only then can you point out (respectfully) where they are wrong.

 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 March 2012 03:43 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 2 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2012-03-06

Again, so to speak.  I wasn’t literally peeing on bibles.  And I am very respectful, but when you question the necessity of religion, some believers will get angry no matter how that message is delivered.

Oh, and hi.

 Signature 

“Integrity has no need of rules”—Albert Camus

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 March 2012 04:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 3 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  6021
Joined  2009-02-26
Gofannon - 06 March 2012 03:43 AM

Again, so to speak.  I wasn’t literally peeing on bibles.  And I am very respectful, but when you question the necessity of religion, some believers will get angry no matter how that message is delivered.

Oh, and hi.

I also was speaking figuratively. However, my main point was that yes you can have a productive discussion on religion. You might not convince them to drop their religion, but you may be able to influence their interpretation of the bible, without threatening their fundamental belief in a God.
As you will read that many here were raised in a religious environment, but discovered through science that much of what is written in the bible is pure myth, but that some moral messages are applicable to all humans. This holds for all religions which contain some moral messages which are secular in nature.
When discussing the bible do acknowledge those secular values which apply regardless of the existence of a god and where possible try to present a scientific explanation of a biblical metaphor or allegory.
Examples:
a) “as ye sow so shall ye reap” is a secular truth. In science this metaphor is identified as the law of “cause and effect”. No conflict there.

b) God created the universe in 6 days. But how long is one of god’s days? Could it be 2.3+ billion years? That would make the universe about 13.7 billion years old and that is in agreement with science. You might cite that the Catholic church has now accepted the evolutionary process of the universe (that is true). This will not threaten the listener’s belief in god, but hopefully will make him/her think about the metaphorical nature of the bible. That way you will earn their respect for having thought about it deeply and come up with a reasonable alternative to biblical dogma, without denying to possible existence of a god.
There are lots of examples available that lend themselves to such modification of interpretation. This process is called “gradualism”. When religious people get a taste of science which does not threaten their fundamental belief in god, they will learn the art of critical thinking.

 Signature 

Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind.
W4U

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 March 2012 06:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 4 ]
Moderator
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  7547
Joined  2007-03-02
Gofannon - 06 March 2012 03:23 AM

Hi.  I’m Tim and I pee on bibles.  oh oh

LOL  That was good and I didn’t take it literally when I read it.  I just thought it was really funny, esp with the mental picture of that little boy who pees on everything including the cross.

I think you’ll like it here.  I puke on Biles, because Biles make me sick.  LOL  But Write4You has a point.  I wouldn’t say that around your relatives, but among us, it shouldn’t be too much of an issue.

 Signature 

Mriana
“Sometimes in order to see the light, you have to risk the dark.” ~ Iris Hineman (Lois Smith) The Minority Report

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 March 2012 06:42 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 5 ]
Jr. Member
Avatar
RankRank
Total Posts:  50
Joined  2012-02-16

Hi Gofannon,

  My background is somewhat similar to yours is that my family is either born again or evangelical.  I don’t associate much with them anymore.  My wife (Mary) is an atheist and lost her faith after reading the Bible.  Her family is Catholic.  We don’t talk about religion with her family.  Mary is a molecular biologist and prefers to work on problems of Science and does not want to get in involved with religious bullshit.
  It reminds me of one of the scenes that I saw at an NFL game.  The camera showed a brawl in progress as both benches emptied.  One of the quarterbacks viewed the fight, watched it for a few seconds,  and then turned his back and walked away.  The commentator said: “And that is why they say that the Quarterback is the smartest man on the field”.
TT.

 Signature 

If your belief is true, the data will confirm it.  If your belief is false, then you need faith to believe it.
Religions that demand respect the most - are the religions that merit respect the least.
If you are offended by attacks on your religion, then your religion has programmed you well.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 March 2012 09:50 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 6 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3052
Joined  2011-11-04

We live in a world of mostly people who have religious beliefs and thus must accomodate to that.  I believe in doing unto others as I would have them do unto me.  So I strive to behave that way toward people of religion in regards to their religion.  But I have come to be insistent on my freedom from religion.  People who are not religious should have that honored as well.  Religions which claim that there is a compassionate all powerful creator, are, IMO, essentially, a lie.  If the most likely truth of our existence is that we live until our mortal death, and that is it, then our brief existence is ever more precious than the lie of an eternal afterlife.  In that case, religions rob individuals of that truth.  Thus religions probably do not deserve the honor that they recieve.  Nevertheless, what should be honored is everyone’s choice to believe as they will.

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 06 March 2012 10:00 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 7 ]
Sr. Member
Avatar
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  4780
Joined  2007-10-05
Gofannon - 06 March 2012 03:23 AM

Hi.  I’m Tim and I pee on bibles.  oh oh

I just bought a Ford F-150 and I want that sticker in the back window.

Welcome to the CFI forums.

 Signature 

“In the beginning, God created the universe. This has made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.”
Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 March 2012 12:50 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 8 ]
Sr. Member
RankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRankRank
Total Posts:  3052
Joined  2011-11-04
DarronS - 06 March 2012 10:00 PM
Gofannon - 06 March 2012 03:23 AM

Hi.  I’m Tim and I pee on bibles.  oh oh

I just bought a Ford F-150 and I want that sticker in the back window.

Welcome to the CFI forums.

That’s fine for you Darron, but my name is Tim, and with you driving around in Texas (the buckle of the Bible Belt), (my home state, also), with that bumper sticker, the fallout may come down on people named Tim. LOL

 Signature 

As a fabrication of our own consciousness, our assignations of meaning are no less “real”, but since humans and the fabrications of our consciousness are routinely fraught with error, it makes sense, to me, to, sometimes, question such fabrications.

Profile
 
 
Posted: 07 March 2012 03:25 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 9 ]
Jr. Member
Rank
Total Posts:  9
Joined  2012-03-06
DarronS - 06 March 2012 10:00 PM
Gofannon - 06 March 2012 03:23 AM

Hi.  I’m Tim and I pee on bibles.  oh oh

I just bought a Ford F-150 and I want that sticker in the back window.

Welcome to the CFI forums.

Thanks to all for the warm welcome!  As for the sticker, go man go!  Personally, I plan on moving to Texas and running for office using that as my slogan.  Anyone want to manage my campaign?  Bullet-proof vests on me!

 Signature 

“Integrity has no need of rules”—Albert Camus

Profile
 
 
   
 
 
‹‹ Nick Sabot      At a Crossroads ››