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Guns
Posted: 23 March 2012 04:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 136 ]
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mid atlantic - 22 March 2012 08:55 PM
George - 22 March 2012 08:23 PM

And I just looked up deaths due to mountain lion attacks and they don’t seem impressive either: one death per year. But I guess you are going to say that without guns the casualties would be much higher, right? I would still be skeptical since it is in fact very rare for a wild animal to attack a human. So no, Write4U, I don’t think you need a gun.

Better safe than sorry though.

I don’t think you understand statistics, Mike. If you have higher chances of accidentally shooting yourself than shooting a bear who is trying to kill you (which I imagine must be the case), then automatically you are safer not to own a gun.

But who needs statistics when we have the example Write4U’s friend, right?  wink

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Posted: 23 March 2012 04:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 137 ]
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A friend of mine (living in a partly underground hobbit house) had a grizzly try to come through his window (just above ground). He had to shoot it.

In the wilderness, when you have livestock such as horses, goats, pigs, chickens, it behooves to have a big dog, like a shepherd (mine was called Odin), and a gun.
As I stated, the most dangerous animals when living fairly isolated are people. Perhaps you are familiar with the names Christopher Boyce (Falcon and the Snowman) and Randy Weaver (Ruby Ridge). Both incidents happened not 10 miles from where we lived.

Man Write, that’s a scary place. And I thought I lived in the boonies! We live at edge of one of the largest national forest reserves in Ohio and have wild animals in abundance, mostly deer (they roam through our village like packs of dogs) but there are black bears and wildcats. I never had the occasion to be intimidated by one and we have been campers for many years. We mostly hear them howling in the deep woods. I used to hunt (small game only) but now only targets as mentioned before. I don’t feel the need to own a gun even though surrounded by many people who do. Most gun crimes here are either domestic violence or drug related so no Randy Weavers here. I do agree though that the most dangerous animal, and we have proven it time and again is man, hence no mammoths!! It’s strange but I feel the safest around people though. Downtown NY, Times Square 2:00 AM, felt perfectly safe. Cops everywhere.


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Posted: 23 March 2012 06:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 138 ]
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George - 23 March 2012 04:26 AM
mid atlantic - 22 March 2012 08:55 PM
George - 22 March 2012 08:23 PM

And I just looked up deaths due to mountain lion attacks and they don’t seem impressive either: one death per year. But I guess you are going to say that without guns the casualties would be much higher, right? I would still be skeptical since it is in fact very rare for a wild animal to attack a human. So no, Write4U, I don’t think you need a gun.

Better safe than sorry though.

I don’t think you understand statistics, Mike. If you have higher chances of accidentally shooting yourself than shooting a bear who is trying to kill you (which I imagine must be the case), then automatically you are safer not to own a gun.

But who needs statistics when we have the example Write4U’s friend, right?  wink

Statistics are often unreliable; but even if they are very reliable, the chance of a person shooting themselves is so low (unless they’re a total putz), that the risk is worth taking in a situation such as being in the wilderness of Idaho.

[ Edited: 23 March 2012 07:17 AM by mid atlantic ]
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Posted: 23 March 2012 06:51 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 139 ]
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Well, there had been 613 accidental gun deaths in 2007. You do the math.

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Posted: 23 March 2012 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 140 ]
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Well, there had been 613 accidental gun deaths in 2007. You do the math.

A good idea. Translate that into the death rate per thousand and you have something meaningful.

Anybody care to cough up that same statistic for automobiles? (Hint: You’re safer with a gun then you are with a car.)

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Posted: 23 March 2012 11:19 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 141 ]
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Quoting Write4U:

As I stated, the most dangerous animals when living fairly isolated are people. Perhaps you are familiar with the names Christopher Boyce (Falcon and the Snowman) and Randy Weaver (Ruby Ridge). Both incidents happened not 10 miles from where we lived.

  I’m not sure what you’re referring to, W4U.  Chris Boyce was a good kid who live one house away from me on my street.  His sister and my daughter were friends.  His problem was that his father (a former FBI agent and head of security at Douglas Aircraft) got him a job in the code room of Aerospace Corp.  While there he saw communications that showed the U.S. was trying to manipulate elections in Australia.  He told his jerky, nasty friend who convinced him they should go to Mexico to make a lot of money by selling the data at the Russian embasy.  They were caught and sentenced to long prison terms. 

I don’t know what that has to do with guns and violence.

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Posted: 23 March 2012 11:32 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 142 ]
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Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 23 March 2012 11:03 AM

Well, there had been 613 accidental gun deaths in 2007. You do the math.

A good idea. Translate that into the death rate per thousand and you have something meaningful.

Anybody care to cough up that same statistic for automobiles? (Hint: You’re safer with a gun then you are with a car.)

I think for this to be a fair comparison, you’d have to compare the person-hours spent driving or riding in a car versus handling / using loaded guns. My gut tells me the solution is not as clear as you make it seem.

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Posted: 23 March 2012 11:56 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 143 ]
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grin

  I’m not exactly sure about what you’re getting at, but fear is not what motivates “gun nuts” - fun is, guns are fun.  That’s why people like them.  FWIW, fear is a good thing and more people need to embrace it.

I think you are right.  My friends who are “gun nuts” have great fun with target practice and just firing off guns.  It doesn’t seem like a lot of fun to me, just overly loud.  But…  to each his own.

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Posted: 23 March 2012 01:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 144 ]
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FreeInKy - 23 March 2012 11:32 AM
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 23 March 2012 11:03 AM

Well, there had been 613 accidental gun deaths in 2007. You do the math.

A good idea. Translate that into the death rate per thousand and you have something meaningful.

Anybody care to cough up that same statistic for automobiles? (Hint: You’re safer with a gun then you are with a car.)

I think for this to be a fair comparison, you’d have to compare the person-hours spent driving or riding in a car versus handling / using loaded guns. My gut tells me the solution is not as clear as you make it seem.

Exactly! Unfortunately, gun rights advocates love to dismiss that little detail. LINK

Edit to add: But I’m hanging out around the DC area - concealed gun rights are denied here.  cheese

[ Edited: 23 March 2012 01:11 PM by traveler ]
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Posted: 23 March 2012 01:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 145 ]
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traveler - 23 March 2012 01:04 PM
FreeInKy - 23 March 2012 11:32 AM
Equal Opportunity Curmudgeon - 23 March 2012 11:03 AM

Well, there had been 613 accidental gun deaths in 2007. You do the math.

A good idea. Translate that into the death rate per thousand and you have something meaningful.

Anybody care to cough up that same statistic for automobiles? (Hint: You’re safer with a gun then you are with a car.)

I think for this to be a fair comparison, you’d have to compare the person-hours spent driving or riding in a car versus handling / using loaded guns. My gut tells me the solution is not as clear as you make it seem.

Exactly! Unfortunately, gun rights advocates love to dismiss that little detail. LINK

Edit to add: But I’m hanging out around the DC area - concealed gun rights are denied here.  cheese

I’m confused by the link you gave as it seems to be saying that guns are less of a problem than supposed.  (It is debunking a myth that accidental death of children by guns is an epidemic.)  This would seem to support a pro gun rights stance.

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Posted: 23 March 2012 01:40 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 146 ]
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Occam. - 23 March 2012 11:19 AM

Quoting Write4U:

As I stated, the most dangerous animals when living fairly isolated are people. Perhaps you are familiar with the names Christopher Boyce (Falcon and the Snowman) and Randy Weaver (Ruby Ridge). Both incidents happened not 10 miles from where we lived.

  I’m not sure what you’re referring to, W4U.  Chris Boyce was a good kid who live one house away from me on my street.  His sister and my daughter were friends.  His problem was that his father (a former FBI agent and head of security at Douglas Aircraft) got him a job in the code room of Aerospace Corp.  While there he saw communications that showed the U.S. was trying to manipulate elections in Australia.  He told his jerky, nasty friend who convinced him they should go to Mexico to make a lot of money by selling the data at the Russian embasy.  They were caught and sentenced to long prison terms. 

I don’t know what that has to do with guns and violence.

Occam

When he lived in Idaho, He stayed with a family in the mountains not far from where we lived. My daughter had a friend who was neighbor to that family and used to go riding there frequently. For some reason, these people saw fit to fire their guns at my daughter riding. She came home scared to death.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/terrorists_spies/spies/boyce_lee/6.html

[ Edited: 23 March 2012 02:47 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 24 March 2012 02:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 147 ]
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Of course there are ways of dealing with wild animals other than with guns.  A story on NPR yesterday was about a nine year old girl who, with her father, came upon a deer who was attacking a woman.  The father tried to drive the deer away, but it gored his leg badly.  The little girl picked up a hammer and hit the deer on the head making it run off.

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Posted: 24 March 2012 03:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 148 ]
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George - 23 March 2012 06:51 AM

Well, there had been 613 accidental gun deaths in 2007. You do the math.

Ok. That’s about .0002% of guns in the U.S.  More people die in backyard pools or from falling down stairs.

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Posted: 24 March 2012 04:12 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 149 ]
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Rocinante - 24 March 2012 03:18 PM
George - 23 March 2012 06:51 AM

Well, there had been 613 accidental gun deaths in 2007. You do the math.

Ok. That’s about .0002% of guns in the U.S.  More people die in backyard pools or from falling down stairs.

Yes, but all those are inanimate things. You cannot hold them responsible, though the owner may be sued by a guest for having unsafe stairs, etc.

The point is that, while a gun is an inanimate object, it takes another person to willfully pull the trigger with intent to harm.  This is why I don’t advocate banning guns, but I am totally in favor of registration, gun and bullet test data, and competency licensing for every gun that is sold.
It will force the owner to to take responsibility for the care, safe storage, and reporting in case of theft.

The biggest problem does not lie in the number of guns, but where they are, who has them, and what they are being used for. We do this for vehicles, why not guns?  The Constitution calls for a “well-regulated” militia, which IMO goes beyond government militia, which is indeed well regulated.

[ Edited: 24 March 2012 04:18 PM by Write4U ]
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Posted: 25 March 2012 07:37 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 150 ]
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  I’m not exactly sure about what you’re getting at, but fear is not what motivates “gun nuts” - fun is, guns are fun.  That’s why people like them.  FWIW, fear is a good thing and more people need to embrace it.

I was not saying “gun nuts” have fear. I was saying that the development of guns and thier types was originally driven by fear.  The gun nuts and thier automatic assault rifles came later….
And by the way how can a gun be fun??

Playing with my kids (when they were young) is fun
Listening to a good comedian is fun
Working out a technical problem is fun
Playing road hockey is fun

How is shooting a gun “fun”?
I just don’t get it.

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